honest help needed

[hmb]

I'd like some honest, helpful feedback please. Pleas don't let this become a 'slag off teachers' thread as I'm asking for some help

I have two boys in Y7 who are very disruptive. Neither has SEN, and neither is so bright that they are bored with the work. These are two 'normal' (for want of a better word and meaning no offense) boys who do not want to work. They don't work in my lessons or anyone elses. When I'm explaining things they chat, clown around and disrupt. When set tasks they do no work unless I stand behind them. They are capable of doing so much better.

The mother of one has voiced her worries and has said that her ds is playing up badly at home.

This is the help I need. As Mothers what would you want the teacher to do at this point? I've tried being positive, praisinf approriate behaviour where I see it. I've tried 'tuning out' low level attention seaking (and this has made things much worse. Notes sent home. I've given 5 minute DT as break and lunch time. I don't want to come down heavy, but that seems to be the way that things are going. Help! What would you want me to do????

Wow, only just read all this. Well done hmb, first off, very well handled.

I don't actually see why anyone should make any effort to be understanding about someone who posts that someone else should grow up. That kind of gratuitously offensive comment has NO place on mumsnet, and anyone who writes garbage like that has no forfeited the right to courtesy IMHO.

Yes, I can understand that, hmb. Hope you feel better about all this soon.

Yep, thanks m'dear. I will feel a lot better when the kids are in bed and I have eaten a Pizza and drunk the beer that has my name on it in the 'fridge!

Fat and a crap teacher!

hmb darling, you are so not a crap teacher

scummy, you may have occasionally posted something that inadvertantly upset someone (though I can only think of one, ever, and I know that was intended to be - and was, to many of us - funny) but, honestly, robinw is in a different league and the number of her offendees is legion. And what's worse is that her own insults are very pointed but her regular refrain is about how rude others are (generally when they have disagreed with her). I know exactly what you mean about issues - though not what those issues might be - but when someone goes on and on doing this, and never apologises, then whatever understanding and tolerance one might be inclined to feel just wears out.

Wish I could be as gracious as you.

Just seen this hmb. I've been back at school for a week now and my school is struggling with the behaviour of the kids and have lots of excellent teachers.
I have been insulted by robinw on breastfeeding and iirc was called a nazi and part of the mafia!!
Keep up the good work

I'm glad to be in such good company! Sorry you are having a tough time. I just wish that the kids would realise that we want to have a good time with them and that we would all have a much better time if they would only behave! I don't ask for perfection, god knows I don't get that from my kids, but being able to sit still for five minutes and not to talk isn't so much to ask for???

HMB - trying to stay out of it as if I get involved I will not be able to control my temper this time round

you are doing a great job!

How sad that teachers are always to blame. I see things from another angle because I am an adult education literacy tutor. Some of my students obviously found school difficult and have a problem with authority - you get a group of them and it can be very tough. My admiration for all teachers who are coping with bringing up a family as well and teaching full time. The government has set up a let's blame the teacher culture with the targets which we have to meet. What about students co-operating, as in this case ? My favourite saying is "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". Without discipline, no good teaching is possible. Children just go on getting away with things and end up with no qualifications or worthwhile future. I see the results of it. Sometimes you simply have to be very firm with people and give them clear boundaries. What about the rights of the other children whose education is being disrupted ?

Good for you, hmb, for trying to sort things out. Unfortunately there are some parents who don't seem able to be positive or meet the school half way. I realise what a difficult job teachers have to do. Without the co-operation of children and parents it can be very tough. The ills of society I think are coming home to roost. People think they can do what they like and have rights before responsibilites. Not so. Discipline and consideration for others is what makes education work.

Excuse the rant ! I just feel for hmb and all teachers. You deserve medals ! All the best.

I thought that I would resurect this thread just to let you all know the outcome.

I separated the kids and sat them boy girl. This has calmed things down a lot. The 'worst' of the boys has been sat on his own for the last two lessons and the amount of work he is producing is improving in quality and quantity. The amount of work in the lessons, and the variety of tasks they are set has imporved. A collegue sat in on a few lessons and has commented on the improvement and feels that the new seating plan is a sucess.

Things are still far from perfect (and I wouldn't expect that anyway), but your help was most helpful and implemented has helped to start to turn the class around

Glad to read that it worked out, hmb! I read this before but didn't have any advice to give. But it's great that it's worked.

Hmb, just come across this thread and wanted to add my support. Robinw, whatever the reasons for your aggressive reply to hmb, I find it totally unacceptable and not at all in keeping with the philosphy of this forum.

You seem like a very caring and sensitive teacher, hmb, and I think your pupils are lucky to have you

philosophy, even

glad the new seating plan is working hmb. Sitting first alone then next to certain children definitely helped my son. The teacher even used to give him an automatic minus mark if he so much as talked to a particular boy in class - didn't matter what he was saying! The boy and my son were adept at being naughty together. The teacher nipped it in the bud. After a few weeks he learned not to talk to this boy, and that was a very difficult lesson for him to learn.

That is very intersting tigermoth. The two boys in question are just like your ds! I'd like to be able to let them sit where they want, but they don't have the maturity (yet) to be able to deal with that. So I guess I have to step in and set the boundaries for them. So far so good at any rate.

yes agree, it's a matter of maturity. My son really didn't hate the rules - he was very matter of fact when he told me he would be given a minus mark for even talking to this other boy. He didn't seem to feel it was mega unfair - he sort of accepted the fact that the other boy got minus marks too.

It is interesting that some children are just not suited to sitting next to each other. I have another pair of boys who's rate of work falls to about 10% if they sit next to each other. And they still think that I will let them sit next to each other. Contsant cries of 'We will work this time miss', when you know that they will just forget and start to get silly again. I don't like to have to spilt kids up but it seems to be working this time.