Can we afford private school?

[Zorigami]

Hi, looking at putting DC's in private school - primary at this stage. Combined fees would be £17k pa but I am sure there are loads of extra's. Based on our household income, it will be a squeeze and will have to apply for bursary and look for better paying job etc.

What other extra's should I be looking at to try and work it out affordability. Uniform will no doubt be expensive.

And yes I know state schools are fine - just not our local ones.

Thanks.

Lucky them. I never had an hour's free child care a year from family nor in jobs with split shifts nor savings to fund time off. Most peoplare like I am who might pay school fees - moved fron home to university so don't live near an unemployed mother who would be the childcare and mst people who might pay school fees work full time at least 9/5 and don't have the kind of job with shifts.

8% of parents pay fees and apparently 50% would pay if they could afford to.

I would be astonished to hear that a family where both parents earn 24k could afford two lots of school fees. Two sets of secondary school fees plus extras (lunches etc) amounts to just under £30k here. That's £30k from taxed income.

£24k less tax is £19k so that leaves the family £8k for mortgage, bills, travel, food and after school care. It simply wouldn't be worth the sacrifice.

When DS1 first started at school aged 4 we justified it by comparing it to nursery fees but we didn't take into account the 5-6 percent increase in fees each year and the jump in secondary school fees. We are lucky in that our income has also risen but if it hadn't we would have struggled (and at the time we earned about £90k between us).

Wow there is a huge difference in some of the fees.

MrsVilliers I am really unhappy with our local school for various reasons. The DC's are happy there, but they don't know any better . I spend a lot of time volunteering at the school so I see things that generally I wouldn't otherwise.

I have already spoken to the Bursar about bursary and they are available but reveiwed annually and are means tested. I have not accounted for bursary in my figures - just hoping.

I currently am a SAHM - we have moved around with DH's job so have no family in this country to help out with childcare which I why I have stayed at home. I would have to go back to work to pay for school, so it would be huge change for on all fronts for all of us.

I am very torn as on one hand I keep telling myself I can support the children through school and what they are missing and not change the family status quo, but on the other - I want to them to have the opportunity to do all the things that private school will offer them.

We are going to the open day next month and will decide then.

Private education can be a wonderful opportunity, but not for every child and not from every school. Sometimes the sacrifice isnt worth it.

You say you will sacrifice being a SAHM, will this make you happy, would you enjoy your job? Is DH supportive, or would he resist his new share of household chores? What else will you have to sacrifice? Working your butt off and still living with little spare money isnt a happy existence!

How about moving to another area where state schools are better? Even a substantially more expensive area could be cost effective long term.

Sunnyshores sacrificing being a SAHM mum won't make me happy no. We have always planned for me to go back to work, but a part time only role/temp sort of thing. I have been thinking about moving to get into better schools, but have to take DH's job into account. No long commute, accesses to mainline trains to london, airports etc.

Where's my fairy godmother to wave her magic wand and sort it all out for me

I shall see how the school open day goes and how much we freak out. The other plus for going private is that DC's are bilingual (FR/ENG) and the school we are looking at offers FR has a native speaker on their staff.

Just consider the hidden cost of state schs if you have to move- stamp duty can be huge, extra commuting costs, premium of buying house in target area itself etc. May be cheaper to go private depending v much on your circumstances.

Just change your thought patterns - children of full time working mothers do best and are given a non sexist example at home which rebounds across the generations and helps ensure women are not exploited by men. It is a huge bonus to a family if you work full time, not a disadvantage, even if it feels like a bit of an effort at the time. if you end up earning 10x what your husband does as I did it absolutely rocks too!

DH and I both went to private schools so we would like to do the same for our children but I think the cost of living is much higher than it was and we were both fortunate to get scholarships. I think you need to be realistic about what you can afford and not put yourselves under undue financial duress. If you will 'only' be working part-time can you really still afford it?

Friends of mine earn £100k each (a couple) and have 2 kids in Surrey for whom they pay some £15k per year each for prep school. They are sweating because they have a chance that one of them may be made redundant. Their mortgage is about £300k but they have plenty of 'room to play with'. Do you have the same 'comfort zone'?

I understand you may feel underwhelmed by your local stateschool from what you have seen (TBH we feel the same). But I figure its better the devil we know and as I volunteer there on my day off I have a good idea of what is going on. You also get crap teachers at private schools. We do a fair bit with the DCs at home. You can buy an awful lot of tutoring (if you need to) for £17k per year?

I agree about the tutoring, but I actually object to that. I think a school day is long enough without adding tutoring on top of it.

Some teachers are better than others at our school uhoh1973 but I wouldn't say any of them ae crap. It's actually the overall management and decision making that gets me, which filters down into classroom etc. Which again is as likely to happen in a private school. But I can choose a private school.

I prefer the typical private school day- longer for each lesson, longer school day with tons of sport and extra-curricula stuff thrown in during school hours. Which makes life much easier for those of us with boys kids who may be less than motivated to do after school activities. Job done at the end of the school day. And it's a huge relief!

Think about what value you are buying for you money at private school too.

My experience is varied. With DS1 who is very academic and self motivated it has been a good experience. With DS2 who is very bright but lazy and is happy to plod along and go unnoticed it has not been a good experience at all.

Deo "children of working mothers do best". I presume you have some scientific research you can direct me to that backs up this sweeping statement?

Given the tone of your post I wonder whether you may perhaps also own an island?

It's not the point of the thread but as a full time working mother who earns more than her husband (but I have never owned an island ) I would completely disagree with the full time working mothers comment. I feel like I'm failing DS2 who would benefit more if I could spend much more time with him helping him. I envy the SAHM at school who are always there to go to events and to work with their DCs for hours and hours on extravagant projects etc.

I have always worked full time and been a high earner. The DCs know I work ad run my own business. DS2 (8) still described me a couple of months ago as "very pretty and bakes nice cakes and makes delicious dinners" (Which was actually a step up from DS1 who a few years back described me as "mummy has very long hair and wears pretty knickers" )

We've transferred 3 children to private schools this year .Two to Prep and one to the S.S.Like you I was unhappy with the local state school.But 2 of mine have ended up in the top sets of the private school.The other is Dyslexic so would have benefitted from being moved much earlier.
Bright children do OK in state juniors in Maths and English.Private schools ( speaking from experience) are immensely better at teaching Science,Music and Mfl's.State music lessons are generally a waste of money.Proper one-to-one lessons mean private school pupils are way ahead of my musical children .
Tutoring is not the same as sending children to a private school.The whole ethos of a good private school is different.Success and hard work is valued.Sporting ability was valued more in our local school.

 Having said all this If you don't have the money at the moment don't send your children to private school in Juniors.Wait until secondary where there will be scholarships and bursaries available.Bright children catch up quickly.Try and save up some money in the meantime so you have a bit of a  financial buffer .

Well o ne reason my teenage boys all cook is that I don't cook for them - so again a win win situation. (Won 't comment on my knickers here....... laughing as I type).

(Do we really want to get into whether children of working fathers do better than children who have a say at home father (or mother for that matter)? I think we'll leave it but anyone who feels they are doing badly by their children by working full time just needs to remove the scales from their eyes and realise the children benefit rather than do worse)).

Hiya
London prices are a bit bonkers.
Ds1 has started in in a prep this year. Middle of South. It is basically £10k a year fees (inc lunch) in reception rising to £15k by the end of year 8. includes local day trips. The two day independent secondary schools we would probably consider next are £15k yearly.

Extras:
No costly trips until about yr 5/6, then. One residential week per day. Rest cheap day trips or inc in price.
Uniform: I bought school branded items mostly second hand, rest from m&s, total about £60. higher up the school sports kit and equipment will be more but I will try for second hand where poss.
That's been it so far...

For us quite a bit of the cost is childcare in the holidays.

We intend for ds2 to go private too, assuming that will be suitable for him and we haven't moved somewhere with more attractive state options. Thought about moving for ds1 but with work it was v challenging at least at present.

We are assuming it will get more expensive but also hoping Dh will earn more (likely in about 2yrs) and/ or we will muddle through.So far has been brilliant, DS loads happier than the one year he did in state primary where unfortunately he was bored and just didn't seem to settle.

Good luck!

For us the biggest advantage of private school has been far and away the English teaching. The concentration on core skills has been incomparable to the state school. Yesterday I was looking at the year 5 books of my extremely able state eldest who was at state primary all the way through and my less able but still bright enough middle one who has been at prep school since year 2. The maths was almost identical although I suspect middle wouldn't have been pushed as far as the eldest but English was a whole other ball game. The standard of writing, complexity of comprehension, use of language, presentation, spellings are on a completely different level. The difference is that eldest was top set and had really positive comments and house points for almost all his work but it wasn't good, spellings were not corrected, detail was poor, grammar was wrong. Middle one is producing really good work but she's being pushed to deliver more, she's expected to correct spellings, she's expected to read every night. That's the difference!

Sport, music, extra curricular all very nice but my money is paying for a really solid, old fashioned academic start albeit delivered in a modern and fun way.

Pp makes a good point about childcare costs in the holidays. Private schools have longer holidays. Holiday care just for the summer hols in a state school costs me £900 for two children.

I ma a supply teacher in (mostly) state schools, so I have seen a lot of schools, and now have a few that I go to regularly. They are 'good and 'outstanding schools, sought after by parents.
One key difference between them and the indie my DC go to is the amount of lessons that are covered by staff other than the designated teacher - it is breath-taking, but parents never get to know about it, the figures are published nowhere, and gvt and Ofsted are blissfully unaware.
If you are lucky, the cover will be a teacher form the dame dept (rare!) FT teacher of the school, if you are lucky, but mostly it will be external supply teachers not of the subject in question, or a 'cover-supervisor' babysitting. The cover work is usually pretty rubbish - eg a 'poster' for Y10 geography - because it has been shoved in as a time-filler.
I have had the same group for three separate subjects in one day (last week) and was today in a school that had five supply teachers as well as the two cover supervisors.
My DC have never had a supply teacher in their indie school - they have had a FT teacher form that school - hence no behaviour issues and proper work set.
Parents should demand the info form schools on this. When you factor in the wasted time - if you can afford it - pay!

DC is just finishing Junior fee-paying school.

Uniform is expensive (£26 for trousers, £55 for tracksuit), but PTA organise a monthly thriftshop for books & uniform.

Sport equipment & clothing is probably the worst (football boots, rugby boots, tracksuits, rugby tops, shorts & socks, cricket whites, bat etc. But, they are all available in the thriftshop.

They also have to have i-pads, as lots of learning is done on them, and homework etc, is set in class, but confirmed by e-mail.

Clubs are all included (Young Speakers, Warhammer etc), only extras for clubs are music lessons.

We've only had 1 expensive trip so far (end of Junior school), and it was £450. All other trips are day trips, and have been £10ish.

School dinners are compulsory, and work out at £3 daily, but are very, very good.

Stationery isn't too bad (I bulk buy on e-bay)

There hasn't been a lot of "keeping up with the Jones'), so parties are just the usual football parties.

School are always trying to fundraise, but I simply don't get involved. Also, don't get involved with Cheese & Wine evenings etc (who knew they were still a thing?)

We are currently £10k for Junior school, but there is a big jump to £12k for Senior school, with all of the books included, but a lot of books are now electronic, so much cheaper, and there are bursaries available for Senior school. Around 30% of all pupils get some kind of assistance with fees (ranging from 10% to full scholarship)

Sorry, that should have said that all books in Senior school are extra.

Blimey, where in the UK are you that fees are only 8.5k pa.

The Edinburgh schools cost about that.

£6k a term over here (central London Prep).

(We have never had supply teachers either in the private sector - a key thing I pay for is the absence of them)

Really interesting read

Fees and system in London and waiting lists etc are like a different world to here.

Hopefully Op E mids should be a little lighter!!