Private primary then grammar?

[Jasminetealeaf]

I know there were lots of similar posts here already but hope you wouldn't mind giving me some advice regarding my own situation.

My DD is going to be 3 years old. We have a good local infant state school but the junior school is not that great. Since we luckily live in the catchment area of a great super selective grammar school, our plan is to get her to private primary then hopefully she can get to the grammar after 11+. I'm not sure if we can afford to carry on private all the way through to 18.

We called all the private primary schools locally and can you believe all of them except one were fully booked! It's too late to look for a private school at 2 and half years old!

So, the one still have space is a house school with impressive grammar entry result. But considering it has no land and most activities have to be outside of school, it's really over priced! Plus I'm wondering why it is still not fully booked.......

We can try another private school near work, with all land and great facilities but I'm worried they might not be interested to prepare children for grammar exam because the school is up to 4 to 18+

It's nearly the decision time because the house school need to start at 3.
So confused!

I've a bright but not genius DS who is in a SS, having attended a state primary and had a tutor for 45 mins pw for Y5.

From what I've observed more of the private prep children at the SS are struggling with the pace of work than the state primary children. A few I know of have retreated back to preps in Y7/8, unable to cope.

It's not all about passing the test to get into the grammar, it's about coping at the grammar once your child is there.

Thanks carriexx

It's a very useful info from you

If you want to ask me anything about specific schools feel free to PM me

Not all private school are equal,there is one near us and to class it as a school doesn't even seem right.They have about 55 pupils.Two year groups are taught together,children spend long periods of time doing nothing at all.The had a dire ISI and Ofsted report and yet some parents stay.Many do leave though.Nothing is done about bullying or behaviour,it if was a state school it wouldn't be open.In contrast we have two super independent schools and the vast majority go on to grammar schools.

I would say make sure your independent school is excellent otherwise you could end up in an independent much worse than any state school.If a school have low pupils there is usually a reason why.The one near us is registered for about 200 pupils and parents buy into the small class so extra attention for your child nonsense.Hardly any pass the 11+ and those who do owe nothing of that to the school.The post untrue information about this on their website.They are family owned so no governing body.

If your in an excellent independent or state school your child with thrive.

this was quite the thing where I grew up - private primary to ensure grammar school entry. I think in my intake at grammar school (not super-selective though) about 1/3 of the kids were from a particular private primary, so I guess the strategy works.

i agree with what ErgonomicallyUnsound posted as well - the kids from the private primary featured heavily in the bottom sets, and there were lots who only kept up due to extensive additional private tuition.

My dd went to the grammar school that you are aiming at and went through state primary school. Her brother is at the place across the road having been through state primary, too. Do you really need to go down the private route? It is not the only way to get your child into the grammars.

I second what ErgonomicallyUnsound has said. Those who struggle when they get there are invariably from the private schools. Obviously, there are plenty of children from the private schools there who are perfectly able to cope but they are so intensely prepared for the entrance exams that the preparation masks who is genuinely bright enough to cope and who has just learnt to jump through the necessary hoops.

In your shoes I would send her to the excellent state infants and look to transfer her to independent for Y3. That gives you time to see what interests her/her potential and pick a junior school that fits rather than the only one with a space.

Thanks all for your honest opinions

I will make decision after visit all private and local state schools.

So much can change in 8 years. It's really not worth looking while she is aged 2.

Yep doing exactly this. No idea if it is the correct thing to do but cannot face intensive tutoring on top of school - my husband had to do this and he hated it.
I would recommend a private primary only rather than one until 18 as the latter would have less incentive to get them to pass.
It may be a waste of cash but I also am super keen on small class sizes.

Surprised that at not quite 3 yrs old you know that she will be suited to a super selective or even that she will be in the top 2% whatever schooling she gets.

At DD's prep school (up to age 13) about half the children went to a variety of independent senior schools and about half have gone to the Grammar school in our county town at the end of Yr8. May be worth checking if your Grammar school only takes children at 11 or if they take children going into Yr9.

A lot of children we know did "state til 8" to see how they are coping (and to save money) before going into the independent sector to get them through their CE etc.

We considered the option of state school till 7 then private as well but look around nearly all private primary schools are all full up or too late to apply even now, I am not sure if there will be too many choices to go to when DD is 7. Any one has such experience?

Hi all. I am in the same boat as JasmineTeaLeaf. I am looking for a private prep school for my dd. We looked at Herington House School in Shenfield which does not have any grounds but seems to get good results in 11+. Our state infant school is outstanding but the junior school is not good. Therefore thinking about going private.

MrsBartlet I don't I can agree with that comment. IN my experience the state school kids that get into grammars are very over-tutored for the exam and lack a good general knowledge which is what preps really excel at - a good all round education not just focused on one exam.

Wimbles I agree. DD had familiarisation but no tutoring for her SS grammar. She was in an independent, but not one that supported eleven plus. The science lessons at her new school have been particularly challenging for the state school children who haven't had the experience or expertise of a specialist science teacher - it had been a steep learning curve. Some are clearly coping, others are not doing as well. Those who came from the independents and had specialist teaching have just had a gradual and comfortable transition. They have been taught the lessons of observation, testing, wiring up conclusions, working in a laboratory environment, etc.

However on a slightly different note, but trying to create a common theme: don't get me on the subject of the ones who would melt in the rain and have to be driven to the door by their parents - it seems an even mix of backgrounds.

All I can say Wimbles is that that is not my experience. Dd is now in her second year at university so has done her 7 years at CCHS and ds is in Y11 at Kegs so I have good experience of both schools. However, I am not disputing you may have had a different experience. CCHS have now changed their entrance exam so that it is supposed to be more difficult to coach for it and from what I hear from staff it is having an effect on the make up of the school (ie more state school children getting in.) Both dc had less coaching than goes on in private schools (dd once a week for 18 months and ds fortnightly for 10 months before the exam). I know how much less this is than at least one of the private schools in the area as dd's tutor was a teacher there and they started preparation in Y2!

I completely agree with you that a good all round education should not be focused on one exam (and it certainly wasn't focused on that at all in their state primaries!) but we have always believed that education is life long and not just about school, hence why we explored lots of books at home with them and helped them to develop interests outside of school. I would never see education solely as the preserve of a school. DH and I read all the time and are still learning and wanted to ingrain this attitude in the dc from the start.

Petts - you may have a point about the science education. As a family we are all very biased to towards the arts and humanities and books are very important in our lives, so both dc have always had good general knowledge but certainly don't have the experience you talk of of science at primary level.

What utter crap Wimbles.

Although the private pupil numbers are too high the vast majority of kids at grammars are state educated and do very well indeed.

My DC went to quite a weak primary,RI for a while,weak maths,zilch science other than electricity. All of my 3 are thriving in everything. Top set in areas that set and fab predictions across the board including science. Stands to reason,they are bright and in an outstanding schools well versed in teaching state kids and getting the best out of them.

However weak our primary was at times I would never have sent my DC to any of the private options on offer as all bar two were even weaker. Interestingly the kids with the most appalling behaviour at our grammars and get into the most trouble seem to have come from private schools.

We were told one of our DC got one of the highest science marks in the year in last year's year 7 exams. He was bored shatless during his primary science lessons. Dd is also flying after a term. They went over lab skills,testing etc. Not hard to pick up if you're bright.

Also round here the private pupils do the most tutoring on top of their private education and are at the front of the arms race. I know because we did 9 months of tutoring( an hour a week) to fill in the gaps our primary didn't cover in maths and chatted to parents whilst waiting. In my dcs tutoring group the ones doing insane amounts( (from year 4),booking up everything and having a tendency to drop out because it was too hard were from the private schools.

Schools vary and a private education guarantees you zilch.

"Roll on the day that grammar schools start to 'control' for the unfair advantage afforded by attendance at a private prep school in their admissions processes."

Not much point, unless you also outlaw tutoring.

Or, as you see private preps as inherently better than state provision for that age group, perhaps working out what is needed to make state school better is actually the preferable outcome?

After all, given private schools have never had state control over curriculum, nor a requirement to have qualified teachers; your assumption that private is automatically better makes you sound thoroughly Govian.

State primaries are steaming forward with the new curriculum. Entry to grammars go a lot on high vocabulary and solid maths which are areas the state system is pushing. Expectations are very high now. I suspect the weaker privates are going to find it very hard to keep up.

We had put our daughter in private primary in hope it will help her prepare for grammar, but we were sadly disappointed. We later realised that the girls who get through every year to grammars were mostly because their parents were pushy or the girl was really bright . Finally we ended up putting her in tutor classes for the last 1 year but she was way behind and was playing catchup. We also had to push her at home. It was a fight to finish , unfortunately she could not clear exam and was short of 2 marks (We are planning to appeal ). However she did very well in the independednt entrances to secondary private schools which their school prepared her for. Their exam patterns were a bit different with less emphasis on time but more on creativity . On hindsight I feel we should have saved money in primary and rather put her in better tutoring for atleast 2 years to the run up. Even if she did not get to grammar we would still have sufficient money for her private secondary. Right now we have a big hole in the wallet :). Hence my advice is put your kid in a good state primary and try for grammar , if not succesfull then think of private secondary which is more important.

Viking- yes, spot on.

The secondary school is very important, if DD doesn't get into the grammar, and you don't have spare funding for the private, do you have anback up good state seconday?I really think if you can only afford a few year's private school, then it's better to leave it for secondary school back up. For a supper selective grammar, a child really need to be very bright to get in, if DD is not the material, the private primary is not going to change it. If DD is the material, then a state school with some extra tutoring would be enough.

Petts How have you gained such a detailed knowledge of how children from indie/state are coping with different aspects of science at your child's school? Do you teach at the school?