Can't shake off my 'doubts'

[Peony]

Hi guys-I don't post very often but would love some advice.My little boy has just turned 4 and started school after easter. My catchment school that he attends seems 'fine' but is this enough? The ofsted report isn't brilliant and the school out of our catchment (but close by) wouldn't even let us visit as they are over subscribed so we couldn't even compare the 2 to make a proper decision. I am also worried that my son is too young to be attending school full time but the school are 'encouraging' us to send him full time as there are a certain amount of activities they must complete before starting at 5 therefor I feel my hands are tied to a certain extent. sorry to ramble on-I just have a pit in my stomach!

Peony, how far are your anxieties down to your personal reaction to the school, and how far to the ofsted report? I'd give much more weight to your own response than the report. Working in education, I'd say that ofsted reports and the like are not always the best way to gauge what really goes on in a school. IME, in that kind of situation if you've got your paperwork right that gets you a long way. And in educating wee kids, paperwork isn't necessarily the most important thing (but don't let Estelle Morris know I said that!). It depends a lot on what aspects of the report are negative, I think - can you tell us a bit more?

Peony, I wish the Govt didn't want kids to start school at 4. I think I'm right in saying that schools are quite keen to get them at this age since they get funding for them. This is why so many pre-schools (who used to cater for this age group) are closing I believe. Pre-schools also get funding for 4 yos but so many children are at 'proper' school by then...

My ds is not going to school until Sept and he'll be 5 in October. For us, this is soon enough. His pre-school taught him a lot but combined this with a lot of play and was part time which I feel was about right.

Agree about Ofted, it's your feelings that count, plus the report could be up to 2 years old, depending on when their last inspection was. Go with your instincts would be my advice and remember that you don't have to send him until he is 5, so you could give it more time? Good luck.

ofsted not ofted, conjures up visions of an inspector of teddy bears...

Peony, if you feel that your son is too young for full-time school then stick by your guns and keep him part-time - you know him best. Just be sure that it really is for his benefit and not because you'll miss having him at home! A friend of mine comes from Denmark, where children don't start school until about 6 or 7. She therefore felt strongly that her son (a summer birthday) was too young for school, and kept him part time until he turned 5. He doesn't seem to have suffered at all education-wise. Don't be railroaded by what the school needs, concentrate on what is right for your son.

Peony - its totally up to you whether your son attends f/time, p/time or not at all yet. He is still below the compulsory age. If he gets very tired, maybe he could just do mornings to start with. I would also be interested to know what the activities are that he must complete before 5.
Like Azzie says dont be pushed into a decision you're not happy with.
What does the class teacher think about you're son's readiness for school?

Let us know how you get on.

I just want to say go with your heart. Probably not very practical advice, but in my book it's very important

I received a booklet yesterday from my son's preschool about early years education from the DfE and it stated in there that they were happy to give parents the choice to defer enrolling their children into school and that schools should support that decision. They were also trying to get schools to stagger their intake to at least twice a year because many schools only enroll during September and the booklet recognised that this might not be an ideal time for 'young' 4 year olds.

While there does appear to be an encouragement for early years education, the booklet suggests that a parent has a choice of where this education takes place and it doesn't necessarily have to be a school, it can be a nursery or a pre-school. And don't forget, your 4 year old is entitled to a free place.

I wouldn't let the school bully you - you know your child and if you don't think he's ready then you can defer him. And if you defer, this shouldn't affect availability of a place in the school later on.

Have a look at the DfE website and see if you can get some further information. www.dfes.gov.uk

A note of caution. You are entitled to defer your son starting school until the term after he is 5 BUT he will then start in year 1 NOT reception. This means he will be with kids who have already been to school for up to a year, and will undoubtedly be further ahead in reading/writing etc. It's a very difficult choice to make, but I decided with my dd (4 at end of July) that she was better going with the rest of the kids than being one on her own, although it has not been easy for her. Interestingly, she copes extremely well with the 'academic' side of things, its the socialising she has more trouble with. A lot of kids this age still need a certain amount of adult 'guidance' in order to ensure they play nicely/ take turns etc and this is not always available at school.

Sorry, can I ask a dumb question here? Dd will be 5 in Dec 2004 - when will she be expected to start school? Will it be the September before her 5th birthday??

Peony, don't be too swayed by ofsted, the first nursery I sent dd too had a brilliant report but I didn't like it, and as it turned out, neither did dd. I think your gut feelings can tell you a lot about a place.

Yes, the September before she is 5.

Sorry, I was confused by Peony's little boy starting after easter, why does he have to start now rather than in September?

Enid,my daughter has just gone to full time school this year, and the way it stands at the moment, children must be in full time education in the term after turning 5. Which means if your child has a birthday in December as mine does, then the next term is January, so the start date would be January 2005.

I think when your child starts is dependent on where you live. Things seem to be different here in London than where my stepkids live (suffolk) and they also seem to vary from borough to borough. i would have thought that the maturity of your individual child as decided by you the parent is a much more sensible way of gauging when your child should start school. Also, my friend who is a teacher of very young children is very dismissive of ofsted reports. She said that they greatly depend on the quality of the kids entering the school (ie how many don't have english as a first language etc.) and don't really reflect the teaching abilities of the school.

Thankyou guys for all your comments and I am sorry I have not responded as yet. You are totally right that the Ofsted report shouldn't be my major concern. I guess I am just feeling shakey about the whole 'starting school' issue and yes, letting go is hard for me as I didn't enjoy school myself. My son appears to be mixing well and they say he joins in and there are no tears etc.. so you are probably thinking 'why the hell do you think there is a problem?' Also as berries pointed out about him starting in year 1 and not reception if I deffered, he could 'miss out' - this was the distinct impression the school were trying to get across to me too.
I'm due to have a 'meeting' with my sons teacher about the issues and 'activities' he 'needs' to complete. I'll let you know what happens so I can give clearer information. Anyone else just felt 'swept along' by the whole school issue however informed you try to be??

berries, I am surprised by what you say about children going into Yr1 if they start after their birthdays, this is not so. The boys who I look after are 5 in November, they will start in reception in September and get 3 full years in the infant school. It is children who start earlier. ie at Jan or Easter whe they are 4.5 they only get 1 or 2 terms most, and then go up to year 1 in the following Sept. It is always said that the Sept - Dec children have the advantage over 'Summer borns' Our headteacher says the difference between the two shows up right until the end of Junior school.

So Enids' daughter, 5 in December will start in September,in reception, she could start her after Christmas, but she would then have 2 terms in reception then go into yr1 the following Sept.

I am a primary school governor, have been for 10 years, and we are very flexible about children starting school.

P.S. forgot to add, that's how it is in Herts, it can vary around the country and for one intake only schools. We have two intakes Sept and Jan, and have done away with the Easter one as funding has been available to take them earlier.

Berries, I must disagree with you. My son is 5 in July, but won't start school until Septemer, that is the policy of the area where we live. But we are moving, so he will be going into a class of children who have all had reception schooling for one year. However, he's had one-to-one attention (from me) three mornings a week (when younger bro is at playgroup), and lots of other stimulation from me, and he's way ahead of other children of a similar age, whether at school or not. He has a reading age of 7.5, and can do amazing things with Maths. I am fairly confident he would not have made quite so much progress if he were at school. Though I can't take all the credit, as he has always been extremely bright.

I don't think holding your child back from starting school means holding them back academically at all.

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I'm giving this thread the kiss of life because:

DS1 is 4 in August and his nursery are pushing for him to join rising fives, a feeder for the reception class of the school he'll be going to.

They only have one intake and are inflexible - they want him to start this September.

I realise that if I keep him in a nursery until he's 5, he'll have to miss the reception year.

He's the kind of child that raises holy hell about going to nursey, childminder, etc.

I'm inclined to believe the studies showing boys do better if started later.

What does anyone else think? Any experiences to share?

I don't have any real experience, droile, but I share your gut feeling that 'only just 4' isn't really a 'rising 5', and that it is very early to be starting school. I have one friend whose ds started reception at 4 and 2 weeks - the main problem she found was that he was very very tired. But he is a very adaptable/sociable child and probably coped better than some might.

Of course there are disadvantages to not starting when everyone else does, mainly social I would have thought (rather than educational). You know your ds best though so trust yourself to make the right decision for him.

Personally I think one entry per year is far too inflexible - I remember when I started there were new kids joining school each term.

Droile, tricky one this as I have a dd who was 4 at end of July. I would advise you to go and have a chat with the school about this, and also to have a look at what they do in reception, compared to what they do in year 1. Whilst I don't agree with starting children at school this early, I didn't want my dd to feel so far behind that she didn't feel she could 'catch up ' and so switch off (which would have been a problem with dd2 - its a personality thing). In the end, I decided it would be easier for her to start with everyone else, than to have to go straight into year 1, when they start doing 'proper' work. In general, it has worked. She has had no real problems with the work, but she has struggled a bit with the social side. I think this is more to do with her personality than anything, as she will not compromise. Sorry this has probably not been much help, but if you have any specific questions, I will answer them if I can.

Thanks berries & elliot.
My B'day is end of July too, but I didn't start school until 5. I think being female seems to make a difference, as any of my friend's children who've had problems have been boys.
He'll be robbed of going to school with his friends anyway, as they all have September (or later) birthdays, so he'll be with a year group he doesn't know. There don't seem to have been many in our area born in summer that year.
Oh dear.

Droile, I have a boy with a July birthday who started school when he was just gone 4. His friends were all born in the previous autumn, and he was rarely in a class with them either, because our school does vertical streaming (does yours do this? eg older Y1s with younger Y2s? If it does your DS may be in a class with his friends some of the time.)

Anyway my DS managed fine socially, although his written work was awful for years, and in fact he was less exhausted after school than his older sister who has an April birthday. His class was run for the younger ones much more like a nursery class - Early Years, in fact - with more emphasis on learning through play than on sitting-down-with-pencil. And he did end up passing for the Grammar School along with all the older ones so it's very much down to individuals (lots of bright boys at our school for the last few years though, in the DDs' years the pass rate was 25% boys, 75% girls, it has been 50/50 for 4 years now.)

You know your own child best though and if you think he would hate it then don't send him - the fact that he will come in new in Y1 won't be any different, friends-wise, than if you had just moved into the area. (I do agree with elliott about the inflexibility of one intake - more convenient for the administration of the school but that's the only benefit I can see...)

Hi droile. My ds started school in September and was 5 a month later, in October. I know he wouldn't have been ready the year before. There were children his age there who had been there longer but he seems to have settled in fine. And he did go straight into reception - are you sure your ds wouldn't? As someone else said, only you can know your child though. My ds didn't know anyone either since all his pre-school friends went to different schools but he seems to have made friends ok. Just realised I posted on this thread last May and my views haven't changed in the light of my experience. Good idea about going to see the school to get an idea of whether he'd be given very different teaching if he went later rather than sooner. It probably is partly about administration, but it may also be about the funding they'll get for him! Good luck making your mind up.