Help Please? Anyone's D got into Haberdashers or NLCS at 4+?

[funkychic]

My D is will be going for the 4+ 'play group' asesssment at Habs and NLCS. I'm desparate to know what they ask them to do. Really need advise from all mums whose child are already in these schools. Pleeeeeeaaaassse help!!!

I meant mix out of school but also in school obviously people are from different homes even at Habs/NLCS, some poorer than others but yes most of the parents being able to afford the fees and choosing to pay.

Al, that's the main interesting point on the thread, isn't it? You get schools like the state Oratory interviewing parents in effect to weed out unsuitable children (I think they successfully challenged Blair in court on that one). I do believe that a lot of the tests at 4+ are simply to check for IQ and yes we want to weed out those children with ADD, dyspraxia, dyslexia even though they may be clever because it's harder to manage a class of very clever girls where a number need extra help so why court those difficulties if you don't need them and why want girls holding back other girls in the class? There's a huge difference between us, isn't there on this? But my main issue is I don't want the children held back by children who are much less clever (the few with a problem that doesn't affect their IQ don't hugely bother me given my daughter is in that category apart from anything else). It's the mixing of brain power when you want whole class teaching at a high level, the sparking of ideas, the speed of thought, the debates. I just don't believe you get that in mixed ability teaching even at age 5.

ds1 gets horse riding at his state school

ds2 goes to a private school- chosen partly because it was actually more inclusive (of children with ASD) than the local state school.

very horsey round here too - a girl in ds1's class (state primary) rides to school on her horse sometimes

I like the idea that being a class with, say, an infant Einstein would be an overwhelming disadvantage.

my ds was weeded out from that independent school even though he was probably more intelligent than most of the other children there - merely because he has problems with his handwriting. I would not want to send my nt child there either.

I personally would rather my child went to a school with a mix of abilities as well as a mix of backgrounds, races and sexes.

Your posts continue to flabbergast and sadden me xenia. Lots of children in my special school have horseriding lessons. A lot ot them aren't rich, they certainly don't have high IQ's but they are just as great and as worthy as I am sure your own kids are.

I wonder how you would have felt had other parents complained that your child's mild dsylexia had held back their own child's learning. What an awful world eh?

Just wanted to add to the message that not all fee paying schools are bad and exclusive. We are in the Netherlands and pay for our 3 kids to go to an English speaking international school. It is actually a government funded school and the eu3,000 per year per child fee goes towards international recruitment, English books/written materials and teacher training. The school follows the PYP approach which is very pupil led, very interactive with lots of focus on the children themselves and what they want to learn. Although in dd's class, they have weekly assessments, this is purely for her teacher's benefit so she can best suit the next week's teaching to the child. There are no SATS and no levels of attainment.

My eldest child is very academic. Dd who is 9 is beautiful, gifted in dance, riding, speaks fluent Dutch and has excellent social skills, has the spelling age of a 7 year old and her reading is poor compared to her classmates. She is in a special needs group along with 2 of her classmates.

The average class size is about 18, although there are only 12 kids in ds1's class at the moment.

The care and attention the teachers give to each child is extraordinary yet it is not a school that values academic achievement above being a good citizen or a kind person. I know the world is a horribly competitive place and that at some point, my kids will have to face that, but I am happy to be able to keep my children out of that world as long as possible.

I have a feeling Richard Branson had a statement at school. He certainly wouldn't have got into these schools. In fact hasn't there been research done to show that many of our great genuises were likely to be autistic/aspergers? They'd have been weeded out as well.

I don't think anyone is saying that, Oxocube. It's the whole I will not have my child's education being affected by anyone who isn't perfect and tutoring at 4 years old that saddens and makes me shudder.

Doesn't matter if they go to another good school. You lot are weeding and sifting and choosing schools all the time and then criticise me for trying to defend Habs and NLCS which are probably in the top 10 best girls schools in the UK. They are nice schools which don't get rid of a lot of girls.

If my daughter was holding people back? She stayed down 2 years age 6 as she got in a year young. I was quite happy with that. You either buy into the system of selection or not. You can't have it both ways.

On selection I also prefer single sex schools too as do some state school parents.

And don't muddle exclusive and bad. ALl schools exclude some applicants unless they are so appalling they have spare places. Some exclude by where you live your religion or whatever. This is by no means just a private school issue. It's just I admit approval of the exclusion and others are blind to the exclusion they support.

northercules, I completely agree re the tutoring etc. One of the things I love about my kids' school is that it so inclusive, that there are kids of varying academic abilities and starting points (many come in at 7 or 8 having no English so everything is so much more of a struggle for them.)

If I am honest though, I would say that lots of parents who can afford the Eu12,000 pa fees would choose to go to another school in Amsterdam which they feel is more 'fashionable' and where they include ballet, music and sports etc in the curriculum. Tis supposed to be a fantastic environment but my dh visited it (although we could never have afforded it anyway!) and said it seemed too big and impersonal

Having worked in an international school in Switzerland, I would say that a good school depends on the staff and not on fancy buildings and facilities.

I see your point better now although I disagree with your ethos and how you choose to bring up your kids but that's the beauty of mumsnet - talking to people you wouldn't in real life.

Yes, I have chosen single sex church school for ds and will do the same for dd. Both are bright. We were told ds would have no problem getting into grammar school but we chose not to go down that route as the faith pastoral side is more important to us. I kmow he will do well academically where he is going to and will get the pastoral faith bit was well. We could have sacrificed and gone the private route but hag access to very good albeit faith state schools.

Now, if we had lived in a different area I dont know.
But I wouldnt have chosen a private school that is excludes children who have special needs and especially not a school who selects at age 4.

The Catholic schools state schools around here select at age 4. My daugher and I had an interview at one the same week she had her Habs assessment. In fact it's a worse more discriminatory weeding because it's not on the basis of what God gave you (your IQ) but on the basis of what your parents wear, how your mother speaks and waht the little darling looks like. I think that's much more unfair. And of course the bit about your commitment to the church, attending mass and also the things you do in the Parish. We turned the place down and went to Habs instead.

You see I regard Habs and NLCS as very inclusive schools. Pick state schools around here and they are largely divided by colour. There are schools which are 90% asian or African and other state schools which by chance.... are mostly white and the religion because some of the religions are more common in some races ensure that divide continues whereas a school admitting on the basis of IQ can be colour and religion blind. Much fairer.

God gave you - IQ . So, what He chose not to give others the same as your family?

Actually at my child's cathoic primary school the children weren't interviewed, only the parents. There is no interview for either at Secondary. It is all based on faith commitment of the family not IQ!

Xenia, you and I will never agree. Your life seems to revolve around IQ and success, mine doesn't. I am sure our children are equally happy confidant people, yes, children from state schools can be confidant. We both made choices for our children that we feel our for the best. I wouldn't send my child to our local comp, I would rather walk over hot coals nor would I send them to the sort of school you sent yours to.

We are lucky in the UK to have these choices. In some countries religion has been banned and all education is state. In others you are shipped or killed if you don't practise the local religion. My children are Catholics too. My mother chose to teach our Catholicism at home as have I. Lots of Catholics go to selective private schools.

My elder daughter used to go to Mass at Habs in the chapel in Habs boys school on holy days. I think she benefited from an education with lots of jews, hindus and muslims and aetheists. At one point she attended Habs Jewish assembly every morning because it was nearest her classroom. These big selective academic schools just seem to be so good at just about everything and yes they don't have children with down's syndrome in class but otherwise I think they're fairly mixed places where you get a good view of many different kinds of people with the only exclusionary factor low IQ and parental income and sex as they are single sex - boys can't get in.

So pretty elitist then. As I said we will never agree.

We would be luckier if our state schools were as good as french ones though, so that we didnt need to have these choices.

not much choice, when you pay through the nose, get your dd coached to pass the exam and grind through traffic every morning to get to a top school. It wrecked our family when I was growing up.

not that Im trying to make anyone else feel bad about the choices they have made for their children

You can move nearer the school and Habs and NLCS have the widest network of local coach services of schools I think in the UK from Pottersbar to Hampstead, a very bonding experience older girls in charge of younger ones on the coach - those coach journeys were an important part of the experience.

Elitist - I said IQ and parental income. Well some private schools are trying to be income blind - the Manchester Grammar aim so if you meet the IQ standard you get in and if you're poor you don't pay. Yes but is selection by IQ and parental income worse than on the basis of house price or on the basis of sex or on the basis of low IQ (there are state schools where they take 10% clever, 20% next IQ down, 20% next level down etc and some parents desperately trying to get the child into the second highest IQ level not the highest for various complex reasons - what a mess Blair has made of the whole thing).

My objection is to the tutoring of 4 year olds and the exclusion of people with any sort of a disabilty.

I would think hardly any children are tutored for NLCS and Habs at 4+. I doubt it would work. We certainly didn't. I don't think it would harm a child if it were nicely done but I doubt it has much effect at that age.

As for excluding for disabilities I don't think there would be any such policy. The only exclusion would be if the child could not keep up with the academic work or had some disability that meant it could not physically get around the school. So if the disability meant IQ of 90 I doubt the child would get in as even children with the average 100 IQ are not likely to get in or benefit from the school.