Help Please? Anyone's D got into Haberdashers or NLCS at 4+?

[funkychic]

My D is will be going for the 4+ 'play group' asesssment at Habs and NLCS. I'm desparate to know what they ask them to do. Really need advise from all mums whose child are already in these schools. Pleeeeeeaaaassse help!!!

On a combined salary of 70k before tax (and with a mortgage of say 60k) it is difficult to afford fees for one child let alone two. My DS1 went to an independent school (a very academically successful one) and we found that the other parents were professionals who were prepared to pay for a good education above new cars/ expensive holidays etc.

Xenia...interested in your background did you personally have the benefit/privilege of a private education?
Would just like to point out a couple of faux pas...it can be seen as offensive/patronising to others to be note "Irish" accent with surprise ..as if they shouldnt be there ...also the Polish Indian sterotyes/references are irrelevent.

I personally dont take offence from this. I just pity your social ignorance and hope that by gently pointing this out I will save you from further social humiliation in the future - and also save other person from possibly enduring your "snobbish" remarks ...actually these are the sort of gaffs that remind me of some of the girls I encountered at the school...where you there in the mid/late 80's?

Hmm, DH is Asian yet had a very expensive private education in an International American Boarding in a country away from his own (not a case of parents not wanting him but for his own safety).

Most of his family who live in teh UK send their kids privately and a small part of the reason we didnt do the same for our kids was the expectation that we would because of the whole prestige thing.

My mother went to a very expensive boarding school in a different country from her home country yet her parents were polish.

Neither ever felt unusual.....

I went to NLCS years ago, when it was still offering assisted places, and as a result it genuinely was a very 'grammar school' like experience. My place was virtually free, due to my single mother's low income, and my friends were from very mixed backgrounds, though none were very poor and none were very rich. My brother was at Habs Boys and his experience was similar - also on an assisted place.

The school must have changed massively in the last 30 years if it really now is an uber-competitive, soulless, snobby exam factory. Which is a shame, because it was a wonderful school.

Well said Knackered.

By Xenia, lower down the thread:

"My daughter playing lacrosse against the boarding schools where the girls are all whatever it means "posh" and virutally all taller and white and blonde"

Sorry - "taller"??

singers, not changed at all. Lots and lots of girls have help there and Habs boys takes a lot of boys who would have got into Westminster or St Paul's but can't afford the higher fees there.

I didn't raise class etc. Someone else talked about Habs being snobby and I hadn't found it so at all. I mentioned examples of fairly poor parents. It's a fact, not snobbishness to associate men with tattoos up their arms to a certain class, surely? The polish famliy were hard up. I know they all aren't, but they were. A lot of immigrants put a lot of store on examinations. At all the careers evenings I have done you get the Asian parents dragging the girls round three stalls only - doctor, accountant and lawyer. I think in some countries abroad where education is something you pay for there therefore becomes that expectation also to pay when you move over here.

Anyway I would recommend schools like Habs and NLCS to anyone. Lovely schools.

Santa, very interesting issue isn't it? In the UK white population if you're short you were often working class. Taller higher class. Lots of studies on this. Taller people get better jobs too. It's very discriminating. I suppose it goes back to nutrition if you go back far enough.

In my experience of Dh's family it is true about the expectation of being a doctor etc which as I said is partly why we didnt want to go down that route. I have to say though Xenia you seem to be just as narrow focused with all this talk of merchant bankers and working in teh city. It' not something I would strive for my kids to achieve if I am honest. I wouldnt particularily want them to get an office job as to me it would be stifling and frankly a boring way to spend your life.

Xenia - you really are going to offend a lot of people with some of the crap you spout out.

Yes, Xenia, I think we've got the general idea that you recommend the schools. A bit.

Yes it is snobby and very judgemental.

A slight deviation (well, massive one, actually) from the original thread, but DH was doing a small piece of work for a minor public school recently, which is now co-ed - a traditional boarding school. I commented on the fact that all the girls in the sixth form photo on one of the brochures were blonde and pouting in a moody sultry way. Couldn't see how tall they were. Maybe more girls at expensive schools dye their hair......

It was very noticeable when L2 played lacrosse with those schools. The parents are choosing to educate their children with others like them which is not necessarily a good thing and I think NCLS and Habs ensure that is not so which I like. But the less good boarding schools though are often packed with Russians and Chinese and the poor English girl turns up for the sixth form and feels a bit bewildered at people who are so different and can't speak the language so well - interesting issues.

If people are offended by facts, they need therapy. Taller people get better jobs. English upper class taller than English working class on average.

I guess it depends on your definition of better jobs. I have the "best" job in the world but it doesnt pay as much as a city bankers job. I think part of teh problem here is that you relate success to money where as I dont.

It's not a problem but it's a difference. I think life is easier if you're not worrying about if you can afford the child care, the house, the car. Despite that I'm not very materialistic and I drive a very old car and the things that make me happy tend to be things like reading, walking, yoga, singing, things you don't really need an income for..children obviously too and sex of course.

In fact 10 minutes ago I was talking about careers to one of the children who thought a job her friend has got who gets 1000s of pounds of free clothes was a "good" job. laughing as I type... the clothes don't pay the mortgage. And of course I said the main thing is to find work you enjoy. What that is depends on the person. If you go to a good school you may feel you have more options so if parents can afford it and it doesn't offend their principles schools like these are probably a good idea.

Dyed hair not allowed at all the private schools I know!!!!!

If I didn't have personal experience of independant schools and people who send their children there (not just dd's school, many of dh's students are at other pretigeous private schools), Xenia's comments would really put me off and reinforce the stereotype that some have.

I know some very very very posh people, but they are not snobby, Xenia comes across as being rather ignorant and snobby (she may not be irl but that's how she comes across on here)

Dd's school (the seniors) used to be a state grammar, it rebelled against having to go comprehensive but there used to be lots on assisted places, I knew girls who went there when I was in my teens and wished I could go too. Unfortunately the funding available has dipped though they try to give some assistance but not much at pre-prep/prep level.

I went to NLCS in the late 70's to mid 80's. It may be very different now, but agree that then there was a mix of backgrounds, both culturally and financially, and it wasn't a 'snobby' school in the way of say Eton or Roedean. It was more 'elitist' in that it aimed to create highly educated, academic women, who could achieve the same or better than men (there was a definite 'feminist' slant at that time). There was certainly little or no emphasis on appearance, manners or similar.

If I lived in London and could afford it (neither apply to me!), I would still not send my daughter there for various reasons:

a)Teaching my daughter that she can achieve anything she wants in life is not realistic. When I went there, this was the attitude and there was never any discussion of having children and how to juggle that into your life. This may have changed now.

b) There was zero contact with the opposite sex! While of course there is life outside school, I would prefer my child to have a broad experience including regular everyday contact with boys!!

c) It was too elitist (and I think this is borne out by some of Xenia's posts), in that academic and professional success were the be-all and end-all of existence.

This may all have changed since 20 years ago and of course this is only my personal view!!

Wombat2, we were probably there at the same time. Agree with most of your summary, particularly the feminist slant of NLCS in those days, but I didn't feel that it valued academic and professional success above everything. Of course, that could be because academic success was very important to me and therefore I was a perfect fit with the school.

I have mixed views on single sex schooling. It certainly didn't prepare me for the furious lust of massed male undergraduates, most of whom had probably been pent up in all boys schools...

That is where I feel we have the best of both worlds.

Mixed sex from nursery through prep

Single sex in seniors but with the boys school on site and some shared facilities

Mixed sex 6th form

w2, I agree about the fact it's not kind of snobby, teaching manners, etc kind of place. It was set up for academic girls. So I think it's a good environment for fairly clever girls to achieve their potential. I don't know about the baby thing. Surely girls are so clever and read the newspapers they k now all about babies, dating etc. You tend to find at NLCS if they're Indian from young marriage family they'll still marry young despite being at NLCS, if they're Jewish may well settle down fairly young too, etc etc in other words your home background still has a big influence. I'm generalising awfully obviously....

I never understand the elitist point. It's a school for clever girls. It probbably has as broad a range of non work interests as you'll find anywhere whatever your hobby so it's not like some kind of dull cramming place where the only thing you do is work But it's a selective school so if that's elitist then it is. But so are non selective state schools where you get in if you can afford posh houses near by - it;s just instead selective schools have a more honest elitism about them.

Boys... plenty of chance to meet boys out of school. These girls go to London clubs. Others are closeted at home. Depends on your background and family life. Many are in out of school activities where they meet boys. Anyway I was delighted my daughters postponed boyfriends until they left school. I am not in favour of early sexual activity and they have brothers so always loads of boys around our house anyway.

Habs has the boys school next door, Habs boys and my other daughter was there. They changfed the rules in the last 10 years so the boys can play in the girls front of the school but mustn't go into the back - so in effect girls can still have boy free space if they want but mix at break if they choose at the front.

My mum wanted me to go to Habs Girls so that I could meet boys on the coach (that's where my brother met his first girlfriends), but I was suckered by Chandos and those terraces. So my choice won out.

Hi, I am new to this can someone please shed some light on what is expected of 4 year old's selection process at NLCS. Grateful for any comments.

...must correct "boys pay in the girls".. doesn't quite sound right... laughing...

On the tests at 4+ I don;'t think there's much you can do to prepare at that age excpet have a bright girl who you may be read stories to every night, who knows how to sit still and perhaps concentrate. Who is interested in things. Who won't cry fo 30 minutes because you leave her because she's never been parted from you.

I think some schools ask them to pick their name out of a box but my daughter couldn't do that and got into Habs. They will look at how children play in groups - are they hitting other girls with huge force and biting them for example might not go down well. Are they running round the room shouting at the top of their voice and not listening to instructions? Checking if they can co-ordinate a bit, kick a ball, may be use scissors. My second daughter started reading at 3 (I'm not sure she's any brighter than the other 4 children but she was a sitting down thinking sort of little girl) and she did do reading at Habs group session but the other one, the one who got in, couldn't read until she was 5 or 6 so I don't think that matters at all.... oops just seen I've posted a lot of that below already.

Many thanks Xenia - appreciate it.