Private school dilemma. WWYD?

[BellaOfTheBalls]

Please go easy on me; first time on this particular area of MN so apologies if I get this all wrong or if this has been done to death.

My DM & DSF have offered to pay the tuition for our two DC's (7y & 4y) to attend a local independent school. The offer has come out of the blue & while it is an incredible offer, has left me with some reservations. Their current school is lovely & we would not be considering moving them otherwise. It has a good Ofsted rating, class sizes below average and good ratio of staff:pupils. However, the area operates a first/middle/high school system, so DS1 would leave prior to the start of year 5. The local middle school is OK, but not brilliant and the high school, although improving, is poor. The system would mean them going from a school of 100 pupils to a school of 500+ at 9 years old which at present I have concerns about. Both DC's are summer born & therefore would only be just 9 at the point of moving up.

DH & I both work & are a middle income household but we are hand to mouth most months & certainly not in a position to pay for an independent/private school. The offer made was that my DM/DSF would pay tuition and we would pay for uniforms etc. These alone will be £500. The school has a strong emphasis on sport and music, neither of which DS1 shows any much aptitude for & DS2 has only been in reception for 5 weeks and therefore has not yet had much opportunity to show much aptitude for anything aside from trying my patience.

Am I right to be concerned that they will always be the poorest children in a rich school? Is this something that occurs? Will they be taunted mercilessly because we don't go skiing at Christmas? Also, on average how much additional costs outside of tuition fees and uniforms do we need to consider?

Thanks in advance.

It's a generous offer OP - you first need to establish how carefully thought out it is.

Obviously neither of your children need to move from a school they're happy at until they need to because of educational structure or failure to thrive.

At that stage your parents' offer gives you more choice. You only mention one state possibility - you must understand that no sensible person chooses an independent school from a shortlist of one. If you want to take up your DP's offer you need to search for the best school for each child. (Will they be happy with that or do they want to dictate the choice?)

As others have said, it is perfectly normal for grandparents to be paying fees.

I'm a little alarmed at your dismissal of your elder child's sporting and musical potential at this early stage. Take a look at say, 20, school websites - it may help you to familiarise yourself with the opportunities available and the emphasis placed on encouraging each child to fulfill their potential.

It's a huge commitment on their part and quite a risk on yours, eg DCs' education disrupted. What if your parents changed your mind? Or their circumstances changed, eg they needed to pay for their own care? Or the DC didn't meet their expectations somehow?

I disagree with PP saying that there are a range of financial situations in private schools: IME the range is from wealthy upwards! V few bursaries are available at primary level so families either have wealth to cover fees on top of housing, bills etc or wealthy relatives. No matter what "sacrifices" are made most people can't afford it so these schools don't have economic diversity.

Uniform costs can be reduced a lot by attending sales or from contacts at the school.

Sport and music are good, enriching things in education and life IMO, whether or not DC have talent.

OP, are you in Bristol by any chance? The prep schools there are excellent, really quite outstanding and it is the little things that make a fabulous difference. For example class sizes of 15 with teaching assistants as standard, amazing sporting facilities etc all chip in to make sure that even those that don't naturally excel have the opportunity to get involved. For instance my DD is not a natural athlete but through playing lots of sport has ended up being on the sports teams and more importantly, developing a love of sport. She also plays music at an excellent level that is far beyond what we expected. All this is because the 'everyone has a go' attitude and great tuition means she's been given a really strong start.
Regarding holidays - it is a pain having short terms but there are lots of holidays clubs which help.
Finally - believe me, no one could care less about your financial status. We scrimp and save to send the kids. We drive a crappy car, don't go on foreign holidays and don't have much money at the end of the month. There are plenty of kids like this and plenty who are far better off, it really doesn't seem to make a difference. They aren't allowed mobiles or anything of value at school, so there's nothing to show off, and the uniform means that nobody shows any conspicuous wealth. Finally about half of the mothers work part or full time and I haven't, yet, found anyone who cares either way.
Hope this helps!

Quite agree with the sentiments saying private schools aren't 'posh' because they're not.

I know people who are self-employed and doing okay that have chosen boarding because they need the time for their business to build, just one example.

And state schools can be as good too, it's a difficult choice you have.

In answer to your op WWYD - I'd check they understood the financial commitment and frankly take them up on it without hesitation

gruach, I was being mostly tongue in cheek. I have no doubt that given the time & opportunity he would find an aptitude for something or at least would enjoy it. He doesn't run particularly fast & hasn't got the best hand-eye co-ordination, but what he lacks in skill he makes up for in enthusiasm.

Oranges, not Bridtol, but not a million miles away - Somerset based.

Enthusiasm is all that is required ...

Anyway - first find out how many years they're prepared to pay for.

Then (and it's not easy as your DCs are young) think about where you would like them to be at 18 - given no financial limits on schools. If you would like to think they'd be taking A'Levels at a top public school then you need to work out where to start for that to happen. If you'd rather they were at co-ed day schools going from 11 up then again, how do you get there? They certainly don't need to change school at 4 unless that's the only way into your one most desired school.

I'd agree with all those saying the concern should be much more about making sure that all parties REALLY understand the extent of the financial commitment they are taking on, and what happens as fees go up and life events happen.

I've had various overexcited offers from GPs to pay fees but a big consideration for me was indeed the cost of care for Gps, and particularly that there might be rifts between siblings if they only paid for one set of children. Or what if you have another baby for example?

Also at only 4 and 7 their music and sport talents could surely be yet to flourish.

Dd is only 5 her school has a huge emphasis on the arts and dancing and a large equestrian facility.

At only 5 not so much. A taster of everything is fine.

How about just paying for independent secondary if the primaries are good? It would cut cost and they would have plenty of notice. Plus it is 5 or 7 years then.

4-18 private education for two DC probably costs £300-£400,000. Quite a lot! And unless legal/financial arrangements are made the person paying could stop doing so at any time.

I would be very tempted to accept, so long as the commitment was for right through.

To answer one of your other questions, I think year 5 is a good time to move to a bigger school. One reason I chose DS's primary school was its small size, however by year 6, it was too small for him and he would have benefited from a wider friendship group by the end of school.

If you are an area with middle schools, then the local independents will probably be used to seeing movement at the ages children enter and leave middle school. Have a good look around your local options and try to understand what the differences are, be open about needing to know the full cost in terms of trips and extras.

I'd be inclined to agree that if you are really happy with the current school, moving later will be more realistic, again discuss it with the grandparents in terms of wanting to make the best use of their generous offer.

The older children get the more bursaries may be on offer. Also, once you are in a school if your circumstances change there are often "hardship" bursaries which would help if, for example, your parents suddenly had huge care needs and could no longer pay the fees (although best to plan for such eventualities). At senior level, especially older / more prestigious / boarding schools, substantial bursaries may be on offer. Moving at year 5 can be a good age for preparing for common entrance and making senior school choices.

(we have two chorister children, went private from the start with intermittent grandparental assistance, dipping into savings now despite their choristerships, hoping that senior school bursaries will be at the levels we need. Provisional offer for eldest, who goes next year, looks manageable; already registered youngest for a rather prestigious boarding school - on headmasters advice - and again if they want him I think we are right to hope that they will make it affordable. Other choir parents are aware that boarding schools are actually MORE likely to be affordable than the local day school options for them, because of the greater availability of bursaries. We have an income that means we are likely to pay about the same for boarding or day. The means testing of school bursaries is detailed but also thoughtful in terms of what CAN you actually afford)

Ah, Pythonesque, yours is exactly the kind of well considered post that I found so astonishingly helpful when I first happened upon MN some years ago.

Other choir parents are aware that boarding schools are actually MORE likely to be affordable than the local day school options for them, because of the greater availability of bursaries.

I make this point incessantly - but I never put it so well and I fear that no one ever believes it.

(The only point I might quibble with - tentatively - is on hardship bursaries once in school. I have done no research on this but my general impression, from informed conversation, general gossip, observation and reading, is that it's less and less something parents might rely on. I'm sure children who have to leave for financial reasons go on to thrive at their next school - but it's still a slightly heart stopping moment when one hears the news.)

We are in the middle school zone of Somerset and moved DD to a private prep (although from the sound of it not the one that you are thinking of). We made the move at Yr2, because the first school wasn't working out for her, so slightly different reasons.

But do watch out, because of the system some of the more local preps do fill up completely, sometimes before Yr5, because of other parents who also think that the middle schools are too big, so if you plan to move then, you may not be able to get a place (my friend moved her child during Yr4 as there was only one space remaining in that year, for example).

Do PM me if you want to swap school names...

When the local girls' independent senior school near me became selective they filled up their prep school and then took very few from local schools at age 11, and became highly selective It used to be really easy to get in. This all changed. Therefore do be careful about waiting until year 5 entry. Usually prep schools recruit in Y3.

Also are your parents spending money on your children to improve their trax position? This is often why grandparents decide to give money for school fees. I would have a frank talk with them about financial implications until your DC are 18 (and beyond) and the inflationary nature of school fees. There are all sorts of parents in independent schools but I did recognise the white 4x4 reference above. Often the people wit the roughest cars have the poshest accents!

Holiday provision is the same as you would encounter in the state sector but just more weeks. Ask around to see what other parents do. The older children get, the more expensive the school trips become. You may be happy for your chidren to miss out, but some would find this difficult. Sports trips at senior school can be £3000 so not being good at sport can be a financial godsend!

Unifrom can often be purchased 2nd hand but the bigger expense is usually school trips and extras. Lots of prep schools have a great deal on offer and I am sure your children would find something to do. At our old prep school,lots of after school clubs and all meals were included so although the termly fees were high, value for money was high too.

You could consider if they could leave the middle school after y6 and go to an indpendent school at 11. Or go right through until 13 and then go an independent senior school. This is a bit cheaper as you delay the more expensive fees for 2 years! However, you need to know they would get in because state schools do not prepare for common entrance.

I think I would be tempted to say yes. The problem is the evidence shows that the middle school, high school system does not work very well (same issue in the states). However, the other option is - could you move (or they use the money to help you move) so that you are in the catchment for better senior schools?

Definitely talk more about exactly how long they are committing to pay for and make sure they have an idea of fees for secondary level, with well above inflation increases built in. Discuss what would happen if one of them was ill/needed to go into a home/died.
It all sounds a bit cold, but the last thing you want is for your children to start off and then suddenly to have to move because someone hasn't realised how expensive it will be or there is a change in circumstances.

I would want to know how they were going to fund it - from a lump capital sum? From income? What provision would there be if someone was ill/needed care home etc....what provision in their wills?

I would also want to know if it was a totally -no-strings gift....or if they will want a say in the schools chosen.

It's a big decision and you need LOTS of info to make it, and to be fair, so do they.

Forget the issues about being poor and get down to serious talking....and don't avoid the big questions for fear of it being indelicate/grabby - everyone needs to know very clearly exactly what is involved and for how long and under every circumstance.

If after those discussions,the generous offer still stands and is appealing....then go for it. You will be very lucky.