Is DN about to make a big mistake - A level choices

[RoyTucker]

DN is in yr 11 so thinking about A level choices. Clearly there is time yet but the current favourites are Drama, Psychology and Photography. She would like to read psychology at uni. I don't think she will get grades for an RG course. She struggles with Maths at GCSE but should get a C possibly a B if she works v hard.
Her parents didn't go to university and are just keen for her to be happy. Her school seems to have good careers advice and I worry that these are not a strong enough combination to give her choices but I'm not an expert - can anyone advise please?

it doesn't look like a strong selection (sorry).

Obviously, she needs to look - now - at the entrance requirements for universities in any city she fancies living in (ie just a rough cross-section for now).

Only a handful actually require one or more from biology/chemistry/physics/maths, but quite a lot prefer them together with psychology and sociology. Other useful subjects are reading/essay based ones like English or history.

I think doing both photography and drama will limit her choices quite a lot (unless she wants to study an art subject). How strongly does she want to do both?

Thanks, that was my instinct too. However I did a quick search and one of her preferred places (can't remember the term for the new / ex poly ones, I am a dinosaur really) says AAB for Psychology and only requires one science, psychology included on their list. They use tariff points as a guide. If drama and photography are both bona fide a levels would they not count towards her tariff? Or will she find that they do but of the course is over subscribed she will be at a disadvantage?

Tbh I think she thinks they will be easier subjects but she is creative and enjoys hands on, active tasks. The alternative to photography would be English language (is that an a level now?) as DN thinks this would allow for creative writing .

Many moons ago when we were studying I remember my friend struggling on her psychology degree due to the amount of maths on the course, tons of statistics required.

Does she actually want to be a psychologist because she will probably need to do a masters as well. This is what my friend has and has worked in the field for almost 20 years.

She needs to look at the websites and see what subjects the Universities ask for or exclude.

My niece took drama, photography and english but has just started a degree at a performing arts college.

It would be a mistake to study Psychology ay uni at all if she is weak at maths. You need a very strong understanding of statistics to get anywhere. Psychology is a massively oversubscribed subject in any case. If those are the a-levels she wants to study then that could be the best thing for her, there's no point getting 3 poor grades in subjects she doesn't like and isn't good at rather than good grades at subjects she enjoys. However, those choices are unlikely to lead to a good degree course. That is OK - university isn't the only path after school and if she's not into academia then why accumulate all that debt?

Her choices are not good for psychology applications. However, it sounds as if she is not really on track for a psychology degree (very mathematical) - so may want to rethink her degree choice before settling on A levels.

"If drama and photography are both bona fide a levels would they not count towards her tariff? "

Yes, they will count towards her tariff. But, no, she may not receive an offer at all if her A levels do not match the required/desirable ones for the course sufficiently well.

Does she understand what is involved in Psychology at Uni? I assume she hasn't had the opportunity to study it yet at GCSE level.

Often GCSEs results will help shape A levels so I wouldn't worry too much at her selection at this stage as it could all change. Does she have a career in mind? The best approach is to keep all options open by studying broad subjects and her current list is not broad enough.

YY there's still loads of time to choose. You can put down what you would like to do, then see the GCSE results, and change your mind, you can even change your mind again after that, and after term starts.
DS1 has just started 6th Form. He swapped his choices a week before school went back, because he had a rethink.

I would question whether she really wants to study psychology, and where it will lead her.

A lot of people (especially at the start of sixth form) want to study psychology, because it sounds really interesting, and many students don't have the option to do it at GCSE, so it's a bit novel. Then when they start the A Level they realise it's not all interesting insights into the human psyche, and more memorising loads of studies to regurgitate in the exam. From people I know who did psychology at A Level and then at uni, you have to sort of push through the boring bits to get to the interesting part, but many students find it tough and drop it after AS.

Then there is the fact that psychology is majorly oversubscribed at degree level, and hard to get on to a course. (I believe that it is the most popular course in the UK) The course itself involves a lot of maths and statistics, so if she is struggling at GCSE it might not be a good idea.

This wouldn't matter if she has a burning desire to work in the field of psychology, but she needs to know it's hard work, and to seriously think why she wants to study it at degree.

Straight Psychology at Uni is taught as science subject.
A lot of science in first year and also as others said stats. There are other courses with Psychology in title which are not as heavy on science but they may not provide her with easy path to become chartered Psychologist.

A quick look at the UCAS website suggests that biology A level alongside psychology would be good.

Thank you all for the v useful replies, great food for thought. I suspect the choice of degree comes from a love of watching criminal minds and other such box sets - what curiouser says above rings true, re thinking she'll study fascinating insights into the human mind.

I suspect she will dig her heels in and change her mind nearer the time / once reality dawns. Knowing that there is time to rethink and rethink again is good, she's very set on this without having a clear idea of what's involved. As for career - she wants to be "a psychologist" of course! I suspect if I asked what she wanted to specialise in she wouldn't have a clue. It's very hard trying to imagine a career when you're 15, I'm 42 and still don't know what I want to do!

I've seen the following scenario amongst more times than I care to remember.

X wants to do sciences, or parents pressurise X to do sciences because they are "employable".

X isn't very good at, or doesn't enjoy, maths and doesn't want to do A Level maths. They do a mixture of A Levels and/or BTECs that aren't mathematical.

X selects science that doesn't require A Level maths, which hugely limits choices (both of subject and course).

X gets place using non-maths A Levels and/or BTECs. X last studied maths at GCSE, and didn't do very well (as otherwise they'd have done A Level).

X arrives at university, finds that (a) the course is actually quite mathematical (statistics, often) because sciences almost by definition are (b) most of their peers have a maths A Level and (c) the university may have a "catch up maths" course but it's very hard for someone who hasn't student maths in two (or sometimes three) years.

X fails first year.

The reality is that in 2015, the concept of a "non-mathematical science" is almost an oxymoron. And a B or C at GCSE, two or three years ago, isn't a preparation.

Aren't there other qualifications for people who want to go into counselling? I don't know what those paths are, but I suspect psychology BA/S is not the only way to get there. Maybe some kind of nursing instead?

Looking ahead is good. Your idea of looking at University websites to find the A Levels required is good (especially because then the teenager cannot diss your dinosaur views. It is fact, in black and white).
It might be a good idea to go one further and look at employment statistics. As said above, Psychology is vastly oversubscribed so I wonder what the employment prospects are for those from the "new / ex poly" institutions. Will it be worth getting into that much debt for a degree that doesn't lead where you want?

career paths to getting into psychotherapy.

If she's good at art & with her hands & interested in psychology, she could aim to do something like art therapy.

Has she had the opportunity to do any work experience with a psychologist? To find out if it's something she really enjoys? I only ask because I have a close friend who was set on the idea, right from when we were at school together. She got her degree, and was all set to start a post graduate training scheme to become a psychologist, but when she got actual experience of the job she changed her mind. She found she couldn't switch off at the end of the day, and she was sleeping badly. She hadn't really realised how vulnerable the people she was working with would be, and the ugly side of mental illness shocked her. It's not an easy job, or something everyone is suited to.

I sympathise that it must be hard for your DN (and the adults around her!) When you are helping someone choose their A Levels and career path it all seems a bit "now or never" IYKWIM, but there will be time for her to change her mind, and approach things by different routes, even if it doesn't seem like it at the time.

There are hundreds/thousands of people with excellent degrees in Psychology from RG Universities who can't get work as a Psychologist because the Universities keep churning out way more graduates than there are jobs (because there is a strong market for the degrees from people who think it will be interesting).

To work as a psychologist you need to be bright enough (with strong maths) and hard working enough to be among the top students in your year and you need to have the means (either through being willing to combine all this work with a paid job and never having any time to rest, or coming from a wealthy family) to be able to do enough unpaid placements/internships to gain serious experience before you have even a chance of the job in the field. The competition for suitable unpaid placements/internships is particularly fierce and only the very best have a chance.

OP your DN sounds like she really doesn't have a hope at this path from what you have told us.

That doesn't mean she should change her A-level choices but she should be looking at vocational routes to qualifying in a related career rather than the academic route.

Show her the Sunday Times tables on employment statistics- Psychology rubs along with the worst employability rates. Furthermore with twice as many graduates thsn there are graduate jobs thoseat the less well thought ofto put it kindly establishments with a clutch of not typically academic A levels will be more likely to fall into the graduate unemployment statistics.

She needs at the first stage to rethink the A levels to include at least one other academic subject- photography is something she can do as a hobby, she needs to prioritise the learning at this point

During year 11 my DD spent hours (and has a spreadsheet cos she's like that)
looking up the top ten Universities for each of the variants of her ideal degree.
She listed the A level requirements of each, by subject and grade

she then ended up with a very clear idea what she had to work towards in 6th form.

I would suggest your niece does something similar
as seeing the requirements of the courses in black and white focuses the mind beautifully.

I would warn your DN that Psychology is a lot of Maths and Science (DD has just started it and is writing reams on the Scientific Method at present).
Then relax.

My DD changed her A'level choices numerous times between this time last year and starting Sixth Form. At one point she had two different sets of choices at two different sixth forms, and she choose her fourth one the day she registered - and is really enjoying it.

Psychology is good for other things than being a Psychologist - and that is where most people end up (eg. HR or Psychology teacher).

It's difficult to obtain the right balance between finding subjects that you enjoy, are good at, and those that will help with university entrance / career goals.
If it helps my DN studied A levels in English, Pyschology and Photography and was offered a job as a trainee for the local paper. Another career path with this route could be speech therapy.
Another alternative may be to exchange Art for Photography. You could still incorporate some photos into this qualification. She should also check whether there are any extra costs for Photography - sixth form college local to us insists students buy a specific brand of camera (an expensive one at that).
Agree with other posters that for degrees in Pyschology, Biology A level and a Maths course such as the new Core Maths would be the best subjects to study.

You could contact local mental health charities and ask if she could do work experience. That might help her understand the realities of working in the sector a bit more. There are lots of jobs that don't need academic qualifications in the field.