What makes a truly good school (not just in terms of academic success)

[Eustaciavile]

Hi wise people

We're at the stage of choosing a high school for our youngest DS and I'm struggling a bit

Our older 3 children have all had mixed experiences of high school-one experienced bullying, one found high school generally overwhelming and just too big, and one thought it was ok (mainly!!). They went to two different schools. All have come out the other side and gone on to uni where they've thrived, and the next closest in age to the youngest is about to start A levels.

All of the older DC have said I should find a "better" school than the ones they went to for our youngest but they've struggled to really identify what they think "better" means!

We have several schools nearby which are all similar in terms of achievement, Ofsted reports, size etc

So...in your experience, what are the magic ingredients that set a school apart from its peers to the extent that going to school is actually enjoyable for pupils (if that's possible)

Ps DS3,will of course have a say in all this!!

One of my litmus tests for a good school is whether you feel welcome when you walk in the door.

Another is what the state of the toilets is like (poor condition means that someone doesn't care, whether that's the school or the students)

I think a sense of community is important. We couldn't find this in any of our local state middle schools because they were all so big (5 or 6 form intake). The large, impersonal style of the schools (coupled with death by PowerPoint at the open evenings) put us off. Both DC are now at wonderful private schools - a decision I definitely don't regret.

You may well not find out about staff turnover. The nature of teaching means that any staff member leaving is entirely at the mercy of references from their headteacher, so they always try their best not to get on their wrong side. So it may well say "promotion" or "moving out of the area" when in fact it could be that the leadership is appalling.

A good school is largely down to the headteacher. You can have a brilliant catchment area but if the headteacher has shaky moral values then the rot will set in. Appalling heads can easily cover for ofsted. Some ofsted reports will even mention a "great" headteacher when it's not true at all.

Find out if the headteacher still teaches at all.
Find out if there are dozens of "leaders" in the school.

IMO a good school provides a a broad curriculum without the obsessive over riding everything else pursuit of exam results. Learning for the sake of it rather than learning solely to pass exams. So the science orientated child is also knowledgable about art or opera or literature and arts orientated child knows about Shrodingers Cat and or nuclear fusion also all need to understand basic economics, current affairs etc. I believe knowledge improves how we see the world and quality of life. I'd also like to sling in life skills, basic cooking skills, wiring up a plug, changing a wheel on a car, sewing on a button etc.
Few if any provide the later only a few have time and space in their curriculum to provide the former.

One thing I've picked up (from my own schooling and from my daughter's) is that the best schools don't sweat the small stuff. If they're picky about the uniform or hair length that's attention that could be better focused on something else.

Really enjoying reading all these posts!

I think it's just so hard to get a true sense of what a school is really like no matter how much research you do.

We carefully researched and chose the school our oldest DC went to and chose one that appeared to be second to none on pastoral care, was relatively small, focused on lovely, creative activities as well as academic success, and had all the usual anti bullying policies. The head ensured he knew all the kids and parents by name(!) and was always admirably visible.

NONE of this protected my DC from the several episodes of truly horrendous bullying he suffered .....and the school was a complete let down and didn't protect or support him adequately at all. The bullying took away all his self esteem which had a knock on effect on his achievement.

And we did so much careful research!

BTW Oldest DC is fine now..he just graduated and got a new job...but I can't forgive myself for what he went through at a school I carefully chose!!

And as an aside, the loos were always beautifully clean at oldest DC's school and the welcome always warm!!

I'm proud of the fact I've never looked at a loo in my life!
Over the years I've also come to the conclusion when looking at schools that one parents "truly good school" is another parents hideous nightmare wouldn't send the dog there school.
Gut feeling is important I have to feel comfortable at the school, feel comfortable around the staff and believe in their approach to education, in my experience if I'm positive then my DS's are also positive.

Tough
You're right I know! sorry your DD has been through it as well and hope she's out the other side too.

Happy
I suspect you're right too about about one person's fab school being another's hellhole :)

Zero tolerance to bullies
No bloody mobile phones, and this is enforced!
Inclusiveness
Good maths teaching - is essential to future

The thing is - despite all due diligence you can never really tell a truly good school until something goes wrong for your child so in a sense one just has to pray that the goodness of the school is never tested.

"Zero tolerance to bullies" is easier said than done. There are a lot of shades of grey with what constitutes bullying and contexts in which bullying in one context is funny banter in another. Some children's perspective of bullying is when they have an argument with someone and if they don't come out on top they say they are bullied. It can be a one off comment in the eyes of some, as well. Plus of course what is "zero tolerance" to one is not to another. And is it desirable? I remember way back, a boy threw a mini sausage roll across the canteen. It hit a girl on the shoulder. Her mother wanted the boy to be permanently excluded as it was an assault. He hadn't aimed it at her (they didn't know each other at all). I would describe that behaviour as bad and as reckless, but not as bullying as it was not directed and not repeated. One person might say that the boy hitting her with a sausage roll, under a "zero tolerance" rule, should indeed be permanently excluded. Is there no space for education though?

No school should "tolerate" bullying, but there needs to be clarity over what constitutes bullying and also the response that "no tolerance" should trigger. I have found that a final warning and checking in very regularly and privately is 99% effective. Bullies want to be able to carry on how they conduct themselves without being questioned. Often they have very high self-esteem, in contradiction of what people may read. And about 8 times in 10 their parents refuse to believe their child could be "a bully", so it's best to go down the "out of character bullying behaviour" line. Not easy.

I've worked in three secondary schools; two I would send my children to in a heartbeat (sadly they are now at the other side of the country, or I'd never have left those schools!) and one where I would never in a million years send my children (I work there now).

Low staff turnover is a good sign (keeping an keeping an eye on the 'vacancies' page of various schools between February - June can be particularly enlightening). Looking around the school on a normal day rather than an open evening is always good, you can see how welcome you feel and how the overall atmosphere of the school is on a normal day. Ideally meeting with the headteacher is always useful, the excellent headteachers I used to work for would happily take parents around schools themselves, and be interacting with students knowing quite a few names, and will still teach a couple of lessons each week. Obviously looking around and seeing what's going on in the classrooms and what the general attitude to learning is like is a must. If I were touring a school I'd try to time it to ensure I was there during a lesson changeover to see how the behaviour is outside of the classrooms, if lots are on mobile phones or wearing hoodies etc. If you know anyone locally, their knowledge can be a good insight into how strong the pastoral team is. Also if the school website has a newsletter I would look at what extra curricular and exciting things the kids are generally doing, it varies so much between schools.

Also, don't put too much faith in the OFSTED reports. They can be useful to get a feel for a school, but one of the schools I mentioned I'd send my children to was in special measures at one point, yet was still a 'good' school in so many ways. Conversely, OFSTED believes that the school I work in now is 'requires improvement' and is rapidly improving and moving towards 'good' with a visionary headteacher... That was news to me, for many reasons I would never send my children there!