Private, state or grammar school?

[Vb20015]

I'm having real difficulties making a decision about our daughters future.. We live in an area where schools aren't that great. We have one primary school that is outstanding and secondary schools aren't good here.

We could stretch to a private school but this would mean we can only afford one child. I would really like to have another and I'm feeling like if I do, I may be depriving our daughter of the best chance in life. My husband is favourable of private school. We could aim for a grammar school but there is no guarantee of a place regardless of how good her grades are as these places are fiercely fought for and and that point I will be too old to have another baby.

I really need advice please

thank you for all your comments. reading different perspectives has been helpful. I suppose at the end of the day it's a lifestyle Choice for us. I feel there is a bit of a stigma about having one child. I am attending an open day for a private school in the autumn and I look forward to asking the head teacher some questions about private education.

I have two girls and they are at a private school that we love. However, it my choice were to only have one child in private, or to have both of the girls but go the state route - there is no doubt in my mind what I'd have chosen.

Yes - they often fight and, sometimes seem to hate each other. But they also have long stretches of blissful happiness together. And, when they are older, they'll have each other to lean on, after we are gone.

Private school is not a guarantee or a measurement of success in life. I hope you won't make this decision based only on theoretical educational choices.

We're having the same thoughts as you, OP. While we're only likely to have the one child, we want to do the best for her as every parent does. I used to work in education so maybe I have quite a biased view for not wanting to send my DC to a state school. At least in a private school, the class sizes are small and most importantly, every single parent of every child actually has an interest in their child's education and progression (and so they should if they're paying for it.) much less likely to be overlooked or feel they have to 'dumb down' in order to fit in with the under parented kids.

It's just heartbreaking that people are so scared of state education that they think it's better for a baby not to be born than go to a state school

he worries about university fees and helping her with a deposit for a mortgage one day. and in the world we live in now he just simply can't see anyone setting themselves up in life without our help.

Do the DC(s) have any say in their life or have you got it all planned out for them? Do you not trust their ability to set themselves up?

This is why it might be an idea to have a second child - to knock all this pfb-ness out of you.

Exactly bertrand. And I say that as the parent of an only child going to an independent secondary. My local state secondaries she'd get a place at are indeed not suited to dd. However if I'd been deciding to have more based on local secondaries 7yrs ago, I would have been able to honestly say that whatever my child turned out to need from a school there was a local one suitable that we'd easily get a place in. In reverse only a few miles away the secondary choices used to be pretty dire, now they're great. Same for primaries, dds slated but actually amazing primary is now stupidly oversubscribed, the previously desirable one is now avoided.

This is projected, worst case scenario parenting! Your DH sounds like he doesn't want another child and is putting any potential, unlikely obstacles in the way that he can think of. I think you yourself will regret not having another child if deep down you really want one.
And do you know something we don't know? Are student loans going to be abolished? Teach your children valuable life skills and they will be successful. Amazingly most children manage university, mortgages, successful careers without having to raid the bank of mum and dad at every turn!

I think it's a poor reason not to have another child if you want one. The benefit of a sibling is higher than a private education imo. The state system is mostly good; do some research and if the options are that dire look at moving to an area where you are satisfied with the state options.

Just to add an anecdote - when we moved into the town where we are now, our local secondary was on the verge of special measures. It was a dreadful school and I would never have sent our DDs there had it continued as it was.

But in the interval between us moving in and having DDs, the school turned itself around and is now rated Good - that doesn't describe it well enough, though. It's a great form, outstanding pastoral care, amazing opportunities for able pupils to spread their wings. My DDs are doing extremely well there. If you want a second child, go for it - don't let the 'what ifs' stop you.

I have been asked why I keep posting, I have been told that people should ignore me, but no one has ever said 'leave the thread' because they don't like my advice!
Schools change amazingly over a few years. Mad to have one child and then find in 10yrs that you have a top comprehensive on your doorstep!

OP - who I hope comes back - will find most of the recent posts very uncomfortable reading. So hopefully she will be in an open-minded and constructive mood when digesting these - as she was (after her earlier outburst)

For me this has been an interesting thread and an example of MN sometimes giving advice (or opening new, important questions) beyond what was asked for, and which can be needed even if it is perhaps not (easily) welcomed...

On the topic of long term planning: to cope with the inevitable uncertainty (over the next 20 years) and risks I think it is important to create flexibility:

• e.g. we have a too big offset mortgage that makes us able to cope with any setbacks without having to worry about whether the school fees can be paid
• be clear with each other whether you will consider moving for schools (catchment or cash release for fees)

We parents can do research on a range of potentially relevant schools and help DC learn + apply, and kids with parents who care a lot about this will typically be OK - but not everything can be controlled!

The only sensible advice is that it is way too far in the future to worry about schools. By that time outstanding ones can be in special measures (happened in my area within 2 years) or the very poor schools can be doing wonderfully well.
I am assuming that the DD is very young and so you can't even tell what sort of school would be suitable. A grammar school is not for the average, or even the slightly above average. She would need to be in above the top 25% in ability.

You also can't assume that private = good. You can get dreadful private schools!

"Amazingly most children manage university, mortgages. successful careers without having to raid the bank of mum and dad at every turn!"

This statement belongs in the past unfortunately - most first time buyers today need a deposit of nearly £30,000, with two thirds of them receiving help from parents. I don't know any dc in their twenties/early thirties who hasn't had at least £20,000 from parents/grandparents to buy their own property in the South East. Many recent graduates I know have had to take a year out after graduating for unpaid/low paid internships, continue studying for an MA or get jobs through relations, family friends, contacts etc.

Personally I would go for the second child but that's because I tend to muddle through and don't think far ahead;we ended up living (without thinking ahead) in an area with way too much choice for some people; private schools and faith schools in every direction, single-sex (girls') schools my two sons can't access plus a few ridiculously hard to get into super selective grammar schools. Consequently, the comprehensive schools near me are not the first choice for most middle class parents and so we ended up paying for private.

I find it odd when posters on here say there's nothing wrong with sending your child to a state school and in the next breath mention state schools near them that they would never send their own child to or other people avoid! On the other hand I rather liked Bohunt School from last week's tv programme.

Taking finances into account when having DC is extremely prudent. Why wouldn't you?

And the costs of DC should include whatever you want to provide for them. If that means education then so be it.

A couple who are not in agreement over what to provide for their DC need to sort this out before having a second, surely?

If you are staying with one child then my experience of DD at private school is a lot are onlies or very big age gaps (planned so one leaves as other joins)
So your child definitely wont be odd one out. I suspect due to parents being older or lifestyle choice.

OP - it depends on your family and values. If you think that your local state schools would not offer an ecosystem in which you and your DC would be comfortable but that one of your local private schools would, then choose to stay at one DC. One happy child is surely better than two unhappy ones.

Yep. Private education guarantees happiness. True fact.

BertrandRussell.

OP came back - she had just name changed

FWIW when I was there my Selective fee paying school was desirable
by the time I left it was on its knees
a few years later it was desirable again

a change of head in a private school have have a massive effect

a change of head in a state school, or the building of a naice estate in its catchment can have the same effect

and at the rate of house building but not school building in the South East, in 8 years time there will be thousands of kids without places at all

The change of Head in a state school changes the entire school.
It is not worth worrying about in advance- the school in 5 yrs or more could be totally different.

Look, I was privately educated (started in a state school) and I will always say private private private. A grammar school may help her achieve similar grades but she won't have that private school shine about her. She will not do the simple things like speak the same way or dress the same way, she won't learn about the bizarre and difficult politics of privilege and will not know how to play the system. Private education is the door to oxbridge, politics (both on the left and right) and just everyone who has been to a private school. Having been there you can't even put your finger on it but you can almost always tell when someone hasn't. There is just something you learn in a good independent school that you don't have in the state sector. Perhaps it is independence-intellectually from the nonsense that they try to teach kids these days. Who knows but being privately educated was the best thing that ever happened to me. It made me successful and confident in ways that I never imagined before going to a high end private school. I just had the freedom to become the best version of myself that I could. I felt like there was nothing to hold me back but myself because I knew that I had no excuses if I failed.

I went to private school all the way through and had no hesitation in sending both my kids to comprehensives.

If either of my kids entered politics I would disown them.
I want them to do good things not be parasites.

DD has the grades for Cambridge and has chosen not to apply as she does not like the place.

Look, I have a completely different opinion from some recent posters on here.

BertrandRussell It's just heartbreaking that people are so scared of state education that they think it's better for a baby not to be born than go to a state school.

For goodness sake. Don't pull that line. You're not the first person to say it - it always gets quoted on threads like these. Said 'baby' does not even exist yet, so how could it possibly be born. So what exactly is your point?!?

OP Do what is best for the child that you have. That is your responsibility right now. A lot of people limit the number of kids they can have for the very same reason.

I don't understand why some people think having more and more children is oh-so great. There's no guarantee siblings will get along. Quite a lot of siblings really can't stand each other, and have a rather platonic relationship to one another as adults.

DH and I wanted to live a certain lifestyle and be able to raise our children with a certain standard of living and education. So we restricted the number of children we had, to a number that would allow us to provide the lifestyle we wanted for them.

I think this is a sensible and rational approach.

There are poor comprehensives which get turned around and become outstanding. But I would suspect they are very much the exception rather than the rule?

There's a very likely possibility that your local state schools will still be poor in several years time. Or won't have improved to a level you would be happy with.