'Optional' extra curricular trips during term time that cost £100s and only have limited places - is this OK?

[Q0FE]

DDs secondary school (in Wales if this makes makes a difference) organises trips, during term time, with limited places and at a cost of several hundred pounds. Obviously only a few children get to go and the rest have to stay and do lessons as normal.

I'm curious as to why this is allowed. Presumably the trips are not considered essential to the curriculum (the one coming up next is an adventure holiday) because if they were then surely all children should have the opportunity to go (I understand that to be the legal position anyway). So... how do schools square it that some children can miss a weeks lessons for a holiday but the rest can't?

Actually in my socially diverse high school, those students never actually cared if they didn't go because only a few would go. So no one actually felt left out tbh.

Although it's technically school time, they usually happened towards the end of the term where lessons were not 'serious' so they don't miss out on anything needed for exams.

Yes, I stand by my point -it's a good life lesson. We can't have everything we want.

Becausechenjin that's how life is- money gives you choice
Become the best you can be get the job career etc you hope and know the benefits
Someone driven by money may up for investment banking
Someone driven by work life balance may chose to work pt
It's about choices being made
Ultimately if they weren't offered no one could go and then everyone loses
Skiing- I was allowed to choose 1 trip at school and chose skiing because it's not something we'd ever do as a family
My parents saved for a year and I had to put all birthday and Christmas money to it
It was and and opened my eyes to new experiences
As an adult I knew I wanted to go again and draw on The experience 10 years prior!

I don't care how life is - this is in the context of state education, which is supposed to be inclusive. The idea that your parents income can buy you an 'enriched' curriculum experience and 2 weeks out of the classroom is not a lesson I value for anyone - nor does it square with the policy of not allowing families the same time off for family holidays (but that's a whole other thread). Imo, either trips are linked to the curriculum and everyone goes - or they are not and should be taken in the holidays.

I don't care how life is Well, there ends that discussion. Goodluck to your children.

I agree 100% with SirChenjin

And as for lessons at the end of term not being 'serious' - I have seen time and time again parents slated on MN for suggesting such a thing!!

Thanks - and good luck to yours (and indeed everyone's) - may they lead happy and healthy lives.

Absolutely agree with SirChenjin.
I have no children of that age but think it's a shabby way for a school to behave as it means that the most deprived will be further deprived, life lesson my arse.

I don't get that. Further deprived? - if they can't afford the trio then surely they wernt going to go anyway. So you would rather everyone missed out instead? A bit like "if I can't have the cake then no one else can" ?

DS' school has offered a trip to America @ £2000, trip to Iceland @ approx. £800, trip to WW1 and WW2 battlefields of Belgium and France.....

Residential music camps are compulsory strongly recommended £190 for a weekend £250 for five days.

Hardly anything happens in June (at the beginning of the new session) presumably because so many people are away.

Then there's the French exchange.

And activity/volunteering trips to far-flung destinations for which the pupils raise money to go.

That's a state school btw.

No bereal - the alternative is trips that are specifically linked to the curriculum which are affordable to all.

Sounds like our school - ski-ing in America, Boston and New England, China, Peru...all absolutely not linked to the curriculum, all held at various points throughout the year, all attended by the kids from the wealthiest parents, all requiring at least 2 weeks and all forming no constructive life lesson whatsoever for those who are left in school in lessons.

I think it is unfair of schools to 'offer' very expensive trips in school time.

Then the school boasts about what a 'busy' (if you're rich enough) term the school has had.

Other organisations do similar trips, guides/scouts, church groups, various youth organisations; in the holidays.

The type of trip you have just described Sirchenjin only takes place in the holidays at our school. Places on these type of trips are limited so most children don't attend.

Sorry, that was in reply to bereal. The rich children needn't miss out by not being offered trips organised by the school. The trips are disruptive. How can they not be when they're in school time. And possible erode a positive sense of community within the school.

Wish thay was the case at our school thehuman - as jam says, it does nothing to foster a community if some kids can buy a couple of weeks out of the classroom.

Not jam, rogue - sorry, on phone

None of the trips offered by the (state) schools here are in the holidays. Teachers go on them too (obviously) - which means they're not in school either.

Who or what covers the financial cost of the teachers salary or replacement whilst way on these jollies?

It isn't the place of the school to provide these opportunities. Kids from low income families get plenty of experience of life's inherent unfairness without this on top.
To suggest otherwise is pretty condescending.

Yes. The purpose of schools is to make a fairer society more possible by allowing everyone free access to education. Surely?

I agree look and rogue.

I don't buy the argument that trips can't be in school hols because of lack of staff (unless the school is rather small). At my school either staff without kids go, or we get childcare. It is a bit annoying to have to sort childcare for your own child so you can take others away, but sometimes it has to be done. Schools should only offer optional trips if they can offer bursary places for those who can't afford them (subject to some checking) and there should be a range throughout the year.

At one of our schools, these trips tend to happen in 'activities week'. So a couple of dozen kids will be on an exchange in France or Germany, others will be doing art camp or music or raft-building or whatever at school. That seems to work OK.

At my son's school you can apply pupil premium (if you are eligible) to these trips.

They are in activities week or holidays except curriculum linked ones such as language exchange.

There are also lots of free / cheap activities in activities week. e.g. a day trip to Greenwich (including the cable car over the Thames) for £1.50.

It seems a reasonable balance.

We are sending our son skiing in half-term. It is not cheap, but it is a lot cheaper than our whole family going. We get one year to pay. I also never got to go skiing with my family, and was brave enough to go as an adult because of going with school once. So I am pleased he will have the chance. He is going by coach to Italy, which suggests to me they have kept the costs down as much as possible.

Sounds like your school has the roght approach - in the holidays, and as cheap as possible to make it as inclusive as possible