Private school fee increases

[stripedpenguin]

My DH and I are trying to do the sums to see if we can afford private education for our DC. Last year's fees in a couple of North London schools seemed to increase by 6%. If you have DC at private school, what have been the average percentage increases over the years?

I've seen the recent thread on a similar topic but didn't get a sense of what the average annual raises have been (I confess I skimmed it a bit!)

Thank you in advance

"These increases are dictated by the cost of things that the richest available parents tell the school they want in parental surveys and private dinners with the head"
We certainly don't fall into the category of the "richest parents" but over the years we've known quite a few parents who do, Sunday times rich listers etc. As far as I'm aware they've never competed a parental surveys that I haven't completed or had any special private dinners with the head to discuss what they want to the school to spend it's money on. On the other hand a couple have given very large amounts to various school bursary fund. In fact, at prep level, where you so much more involved in school life, know what's going on, and also know who everyone is, I was often surprised that the uber rich and titled were so obviously not treated any differently to all the rest of us. Also again only in my experience the richest parents are not pushing obsessively for "mindfulness" classes, (the idea of the mega rich I know pushing for mindfulness classes is actually so ridiculous as to be funny), nagging heads for new buildings (over the years many we know at a whole variety of boarding schools have moaned about their school's desire to build new science labs/music dept etc. and also being endlessly asked for a financial contribution towards it), or express concerns over class size, many I don't think have the faintest idea how big the classes are. Over the years I've got used to the fact that given a chance most parents however wealthy moan about fees, they can't wait for the day when they stop paying them and are very quick to moan when their children are home a few weeks early at the end of term say after finishing their (I)GCSE's but they are still expected to pay for a whole term.
Most parents even the mega wealthy, who for them fees are a drop in the ocean, quite openly view school fees as a very considerable expense.

It's all a question of choices and whose choices prevail. I urge prospective parents to look at schools' accounts as well as the prospectus.

If a head is proud to have received an award from Tatler or the Sunday Times, that is also a warning sign that image, fashion and snobbery are more important to them than the academic and social principles on which their school was founded and adherence to which used to make their school's reputation, rather than who designed their shoes and which trendy guru they think could help persuade pushy parents they're dealing with the exam stress they worry about, all of which translates into bonkers fee rises.

After this and other threads I was amused to read in the paper that the first private school has offered a fixed fee rate for parents similarly to mortgages.
I wonder if the very popular London schools will ever see the need to adopt that for publicity reasons especially as certain of their heads are making sound bites about the middle classes being priced out by rising fees and how wrong this is

Aha! How interesting, Summerends. The London schools find walking the talk so hard, I'd be surprised if any of them dared try this but it would be an excellent test for them.

granola Win Coll has raised it's fees every year we've been there, it now has one of the highest fess in UK at a fraction short of 35k. People may critisise it for a variety of different reasons but "academic principle" remains it raison d'être, in fact I hear parents criticise the fact that when the chips are down academic and intellectual interests are basically what it's all about. The school is currently trying to move towards a needs blind policy and is hoping to sell off a large piece of land for development to enable this to happen, yes some boys wear designer label shoes and Saville Row others are clad in Clarkes finest and M and S, there are no trendy gurus advising about examination stress. I don't think there is much new building work, many building including the boarding houses remain distinctly tatty and or basic in comparison with other school, they are repairing the roof on the 14c chapel at I'm sure great cost but I suspect this is not through choice. The school of course is full. I've no idea what Dr Townsend earns but I do know the wage bill for the entire school is considerable but then this is hardly surprising as not only are the numerous teachers, a school like Win Coll requires numerous non teaching staff to enable it to function properly and let's not forget safely.
We are sent the annual account and despite the large fees the school does not cover it running costs they top up their income from other assets.
granola you seem very bitter about school fees, and very keen to criticise how your fees are spent, there is of course an excellent solution to your displeasure. Many on here would be very happy to tell you that you're wasting your money and that the state does an excellent job if not better. Many of corpse don't have the luxury of being able to decide between state ed and independent ed let alone moan about fees increase. It is a free country the the customer is free to take his money and in your case your DC somewhere else if they are not happy.

Of course many of the highest performing schools in the UK are 'needs blind' because they are grammar schools.

happygardening I am not bitter, just a bit exasperated perhaps. I am perfectly well aware that there are excellent state schools. I'd like to see independent schools being available to a wider public too, as they keep pretending they are, not to an ever smaller sliver of the very rich.

It's precisely because it's a free country that I get cross when formerly progressive schools, particularly pioneering girls' schools like NLCS and SPGS, start spending money in silly, sometimes downright stupid ways, which have the effect of curtailing the freedom of choice of those whom they squeeze out with their ridiculous fees.

It's a free country, so I'm entitled to criticise the way a number of schools are now being managed and to point out their hypocrisy and their betrayal of their founding pronciples, including feminist ideals.

Win Coll is an extraordinarily rich and privileged boys' school. It could easily reduce its fees by selling some manuscripts and other valuable assets. It chooses not to.

London day schools don't have that choice but they could easily reduce their costs and increase pupil numbers instead. Some have managed to do both, which is much to their credit (eg JAGS).

Inflation busting fee increases are not an inevitability. It depends on who's in charge and what their priorities are. That's why I advise parents to look at those factors, rather than just doing projections based on inflation.

Yes you're right Win Coll could sell "some manuscripts" including the Mappa Mundi or any of their other pieces of "family silver" but surely it's better to sell land instead? Selling the Mappa Mundi would obviously raise significant funds for it's bursary scheme but could be bought by a private individual and then become part of a private and inaccessible collection whereas it is currently available for viewing by the general public and of course as importantly the boys themselves.

Selling off the land seems to me to be much more sensible.
You are of course free to have your own views and express them but from reading back over what you've written on this thread you do seem upset about fee rises hence my suggestion that if it's upsetting you that much you are free to go elsewhere. Maybe I'm becoming increasing chilled about it because I've only got 1 year to go .

granola I'm also not that sure are making great claims to be available to the wider general public. They might on the surface of things make positive noises about bursaries etc but as someone I know quickly found out you don't have to explore there written info very far or talk to bursars to find out that most they are only offering assisted places to a relative handful of children and only offering small reductions.

Our top end London indie used to offer this and was great when the DC were in the prep school. Now discontinued.

happygardening I assure you I'm not "upset", just cross. And I worry for parents who are doing careful sums like OP when there are other things to be looking out for.

Independent schools keep pretending they're trying to help parents with fees but, as you have acknowledged, they just don't have the necessary funds.

A few weeks ago The Times carried an article about Westminster Harris Sixth Form and quoted the head of Westminster School saying he couldn't tell the difference between the pupils at the two schools. When the journalist, herself an Old Westminster, queried this bizarre statement, Mr Derham replied that Westminster School was becoming "needs blind". This is palpable nonsense.

Likewise you tell us that Win Coll is "hoping" to sell some land in order to build a "needs blind" fund. It hasn't done so yet, though, has it? Again, fine words but no action.

Actually, I think selling the Mappa Mundi would be an excellent idea. The govt would have to buy it one way or another. A big fund for "needs blind" admissions would be much more in line with William of Wykeham's plan for the school than turning it into a tourist attraction.

It depends what your priorities are and what you think is important. Andrew Halls of KCS Wimbledon recently told a BBC documentary that The Tatler Schools Guide was "important". It isn't. The founders of that great school would be appalled.

It was so revealing because this was the same Andrew Halls who'd told the Sunday Times that he'd just realised his fees were becoming unaffordable for numerous professionals. Oxford dons kept telling him that when he took MCS on its stratospherically expensive route to "Sunday Times School of the Year" but he wasn't listening then, probably because he preferred to spend his time reading Tatler.

granola Win Coll IMO does not necessarily lead the way when it comes to change but having decided that change is necessary it does then follow it through. They plan is to sell of a substantial piece of land in or around Winchester (I don't know Winchester itself very well) with permission for housing, anyone who knows anything about house building will know that this sort of permission is not granted over night, and that the land is considerably more valuable with the permission than without it so they are in the process of obtaining it, so I don't think you can accuse them "of fine words without action". They do currently have approximately 15% of the school receiving a bursary averaging 65% ok it could be better but it's a start and many have not achieved anything close to this.
I'm also sceptical that the government would have to buy the schools Mappa Mundi "one way or another" many uniquely import art works have been sold to private individuals. Someone who works for my DH is a metal detective (not sure of the correct terminology) he found a "uniquely important" coin, 800 years old, only 4 in the world, in "mint condition", the BM was very excited about it, it was offered around but no museum could afford to buy it and it was sold to a private individual.

If bursaries average 65% at Win Coll, happygardening, that means the average bursary is going to parents who can afford the balance of £12k pa. Those parents aren't exactly poor.

And yet only 15% are on bursaries, so the vast majority can afford £35k pa, which is an absolutely enormous sum.

Win Coll has definitely got a very long way to go before becoming "needs blind". Selling land is bound to be tricky. Selling the Mappa Mundi could be much quicker. I'm sure it would go to a good home.

I'm also sure that there are hundreds of potential Wykehamists whose parents couldn't find £12k pa, let alone £35k pa, so the loss of that one object will have been in an extremely good cause.

I find the contradiction quite amusing. On one hand private schools aren't accessible. Whilst on the other hand they say private schools are no better than the state. So why complain about rising school fees? Why not just change to a state school? At my DD's tatler rated school fees go up by 5% per annum. It was already calculated into our budget when we enrolled her. I think planning is the key to fees. If you can't afford then look at the very good state options. Which apparently are just as good as the paid options

You're right granola the school does have a long way to go but at least it is trying to go there, few boarding schools are in a better position. the overwhelming majority basically offer virtually nothing.
I don't agree that selling something like a Mappa Mundi to a "good home" although quicker would be the right way forward, something that important must stay available for Jo Public including the boys, the governors believe that selling the land will enable the school to become permanently needs blind as far as I understand the amount of money that will be raised is very substantial.
Of course the other thing is that only a relative few will benefit, the school only has 700 places in total, needs blind means that the less well off still compete for places alongside the wealthy who will have been very well prepared by their preps, boys come from all over the world as far, as understand the bursary policy extends to all regardless of nationality, full boarding will always remain unpopular with parents (one big name full boarding school only received one application for it bursary last year) and yr 9 entry is problematic for those in the state system and prep schools definitely don't have large resourses to offer multiple resourses.
The big question is if Win Coll and few others (because when it comes to boarding schools that's all we're talking about) become needs blind is it going to change education that much or have a massive impact on the general population? No. Perhaps there are better ways they could spend there money or time?

"bursaries average 65% at Win Coll, happygardening, that means the average bursary is going to parents who can afford the balance of £12k pa"

I don't think it's that sort of average (never seen a school that would do it that way, as it can be misleading, now awaits slew of examples). That will be the mean figure, but if you look range, you are going to find large awards and smaller ones. Very few, if any, will be 65%.

And it's not clear whether the value of scholarships is included in the bursary figure. Because bursary is not the only way of backing reduced fees.

AnotherNewt, St Paul's School gives examples on its website of the sorts of families who get financial assistance. One of these is the family of an "NHS worker" with 2 boys at the school, who get10% off the fees. We worked out on another thread that this "worker" must be a consultant.

Once London day school fees become so expensive that people at the top of their professions can't afford them but the schools are coy about admitting it, something has gone seriously wrong.

But isn't that like London house prices? you'd think they were completely ridiculous, yet people are buying houses.

If there aren't enough applicants/standards are falling because the pool of applicants is shrinking, it's pretty easy to adjust or freeze fees. In the meantime, schools appear to be charging costs that the market will bear.

Many of these schools were set up to educate poor children, not middle class professionals, so they have already strayed quite far from their original aims. (although I suspect a handful of scholarships throughout the school would count as educating e.g. "10 girls from the parish")

Granolamuncher, currently most people can't afford private school fees. When schools put their fees up even fewer people can afford them. But there are still enough people who can afford them. The whole model of private schooling is inequitable. But you only seem to object to its inequity when it starts to mean that the professional middle classes can't afford them. Why should they be able to?

... one big name full boarding school only received one application for its bursary last year ...

Now, that is fascinating.

Independent school fees in London used to be affordable by salaried professionals. Through Assisted Places and more recently through their own bursary funds, the schools were able to give financial assistance to poorer families and they still do. The new phenomenon is the squeezing out of the middle. Should NHS consultants get bursaries? I'd prefer to see schools reining in costs and fees so they don't have to face that absurdity.

AnotherNewt I'm not quite sure I understand what your trying to say (probably my fault it's a bit early in the morning). At Win Coll approx 15% of the boys receive bursaries the average size is a 65% reduction, I've seen (and lost) the actual break down I think over 50% of those receive this few receive 100% or a 10% reduction. Winning a scholarship doesnt bring any financial reward.
Granola why shouldn't NHS consultants receive bursaries? Arent their children equally deserving? Surely needs blind admission means that everyone is equally deserving.
You talk about schools reining in costs but where can they realistically do this? Are all schools are embarking on ambitious building projects if they are are they paying for these directly or from bank loans? is it parental pressure for these buildings? What happens is they don't build new science blocks etc will parents take their cash somewhere else? I'm just not convinced it's as black and white as you seem to think it is.
Zero yes it is fascinating but let's be realistic, full boarding is not everyone's cup of tea, many full boarding schools struggle to get paying pupils and yr 9 entry is a an issue for those not in the traditional prep system.

What I means that an average award (total value of all awards divided by number of recipients) does not give a true picture of typical value of award. Even a few at 100% will skew an average (ie mean, not mode or median) to the point of being meaningless.

The point about other awards (such as scholarships) only applies to schools which offer ones with a cash value, and was intended as another reason why mean average on bursaries only can be misleading.

And another general point, boarding schools sometimes offer generous reductions for tuition, but still expect some payment towards the board and lodging costs. That would put the cost to parents on a par with or below state boarding fees, but can again skew how you look at the figures. OTOH, I've come across other schools (I'm thinking of an example from a day school, as this thread isn't just about boarding) which have provided over 100% as they think it's useless to offer a free place if travel/uniform costs are still a barrier.

I don't think Win Coll's sole raison d'etre is academic principle, as happygardening claims. Clearly it is also hugely invested in maintenance of tradition and preservation of heritage. That's why it isn't selling off land or maps in a hurry. And you are never going to get a realistic cost-benefit spending analysis from such schools when they have colossally deep pockets to dip into, anyway, because the larger your funds, the easier it is to conclude that a small, hypothetical educational benefit may be worth the cost. You thus forever fail to become truly needs blind, because the funding needed for this forever rockets upwards (if you could ever believed the utterly ludicrous claim in the first place that a private school could become needs blind, when as happygardening pointed out herself, you have to be pretty savvy and therefore probably not hugely needy to be able to get through the entrance exam process in the first place if you don't have the right prep school behind you...). And, of course, huge amounts of money do bring benefits, so you will also always have the smaller, less well endowed schools trying to find ways to attract the deep pockets, rather than the tiresome people who want to make life stressful by insisting on more and more for less and less.

Independent school fees in London used to be affordable by salaried professionals.
So did a houseful of servants, several DC, in a large house, and with only one wage-earner...
None of those things are possible now for what was the middle-classes - eg GP, Vicar, solicitors. It was a white mono-culture.
The world has moved on, and most would say for the better - one of the results in many things no longer affordable by those middle classes.
Partly because there is so much more people expect to have - expensive holidays, cars, electronic goods etc that didn't exist in those days.
You should look a the whole picture of the lifestyles people choose, and what they choose to spend their money on, rather than picking out one single item, - indie schooling, and whining about the unaffordability of that.