IB in state school...

[Jellified]

Anyone's dc done this? Is there a list somewhere of schools that offer it?

If you go to the IBSCA website you can search by UK region. Any school that offers the IB is a member, but you have to click on individual schools to check if they are state or independent, if you're not sure.
My son will be starting the IB at his state grammar school next year...the IB was one of the main reasons for us choosing that school and it has an excellent reputation.

all the state schools and colleges round here have gone back to A levels as IB is not facilitating for lots of UK STEM degrees

That's interesting to hear talkinpeace. My husband did the IB, in a different country, and then did university in the UK all the way through his PhD in engineering. That was over twenty years ago so things could have changed but he felt that he was better prepared than most of the UK students.

My daughters grammar school only offer the IB . From the universities and people in industry we have spoken to it seems very well received. I was under the impression it was well regarded as it gave such a broad covering of subjects. Be interested to hear other views

My dds secondary has actually stopped offering ib because of difficulties getting the teachers supposedly (the lead emigrated) but rumour has it that it was also because of doubts about how well it was actually equipping students for uni applications

The IB is better preparation for some university degrees than are A-levels and A-levels are better preparation than IB for other degree courses. It is useful to have an idea of what course of study you want to do before choosing (this is not necessarily possible of course).

IB is generally more useful for pupils who like humanities/social sciences than for STEM.

I did the IB many years ago and have numerous friends who did medicine, engineering and various sciences who are now consultants and Professors in their respective fields ( no I don't stalk them we recently had a reunion!) I thought maybe it has changed when looking at the comments above. I have just looked at Sevenoaks school, and their IB results and destinations for 2014. The majority of the courses destinations are STEM subjects. In fact they has 28 places for Natural sciences, 20 for engineering and 12 for medicine and Veterinary courses. Maths is only 1 place, but teachers who have taught both A level and IB certainly didn't find the IB maths lacking. Of courses many talented mathematicians may have decided to do natural sciences or engineering instead.www.sevenoaksschool.org/Websites/sevenoaks/files/Content/4957233/Final_Draft_PPT_Sept_Staff_Meeting_2014_edit.pdf So it would appear that many university accept that they do prepare students well.

I believe that the IB is an expensive system to run and maybe more suited to all rounder academic students, whereas A levels are more accessible to a wider range of students. I have seen this being given as a reason for stopping the IB.

There are definitely medics and other STEM subject students heading for uni after doing the IB at ds's school - they certainly don't seem to have been disadvantaged

It is a more expensive programme to run than A-levels though and running the IB alongside A-levels is out of the financial reach of most schools

Sevenoaks' IB resources and results are, however, outstanding in every respect. I'm not at all sure that general truths may be drawn from its example.

I think one issue is that universities demand a higher mark for IB, so would ask for a mark above 30 for IB but ABB for A levels.

Sevenoaks school is so absurdly over resourced - their theatre is better than that of many small cities - that what they do has no relevance to the state sector.

It does talking because their students do the IB and universities ask them for particular grades. They obtain those grades and they are happy for them to be students on STEM courses at their universities. The fact that they have a theatre is irrelevant if you want to apply for a STEM course!
The fact I introduced Sevenoaks to the thread was because previous posters including you had said that it was poor preparation for STEM courses. I was showing that is not always the case.

Universities tend to ask for higher grades whenever they feel that students' qualifications are not the best preparation for the course.

IB is not ideal for many STEM courses, so the required grades are set higher than A level grades. In a way this is obvious: IB is broader but this necessarily means that less material is covered in the sciences, even if four are taken at higher level. It is not true to say that IB is not facilitating for STEM though: all courses will quote their typical IB offer as well as their A level offers.

Note that higher offers are also made for candidates having non-ideal A level choices. For example, not having further maths A level is less than ideal for the most competitive maths courses, and thus those who don't have further maths are asked to get higher A level grades (typically one grade higher in one A level and a STEP paper).

(Top UK universities also often make very high offers to European candidates when they don't understand their grading systems. I have known of Oxbridge offers based on high school results which are only achieved by the top 0.01% of candidates.)

Running an IB programme properly is indeed very expensive. It is interesting to note, however, that relatively few UK private schools are going down to the IB route, even those which could easily afford it. I think it is because IB is seen as a "hard" route into the top universities for some subjects.

My dds grammar school has just informed parents that they will no longer be offering the IB as of this coming September.
Two main reasons given, one was the very low number of students opting for IB instead of A levels, The other being that the introduction of the IB limited the choice of A level subjects available so students have been transferring to other 6 forms to be able to have a wider choice of A level subjects .

I think it is best to offer one or the other. I am really pleased that my dd's grammar school has just binned A Levels in favour of offering only the IB, as this will enable them to focus on just one curriculum. Both my children are stronger in MFL/humanities so I like the idea of having to incorporate maths and a science post GCSE in their otherwise arts-biased subject preferences.

You can access STEM courses with the IB but your options will be more limited as it is not possible to study all three sciences, as it is with A levels. If your DC knows age 15 that he wants to study eg medicine and thus takes the IB with maths, biology and chemistry at higher tier then provided he gets high enough results all should be fine. But if like my DS still debating between engineering and natural sciences, IB wouldn't allow him to take maths and all three sciences to keep his options open.
For DD who is looking at geography, english, and biology at A level, I think the IB would be perfect.

Dd's grammar offers the IB and A Levels. Interestingly, the majority of those holding Oxbridge offers are doing A levels not IB, despite the fact that the girls doing IB are among the brightest in the year group. I think the IB is well-regarded and very challenging but not necessarily the right way to go if Oxbridge is a possibility.

Grammar schools may well be able to offer IB and A levels because they do not have to provide for BTECs and diplomas and C&G and the like that drain resources at other state schools

University IB offers can be disconcertingly high, but are starting to become a bit more reasonable in comparison with A level IME. No problems with Oxbridge Science offers, and while these are certainly high, I'm not sure they are more unattainable than A levels offers, for the students holding the offers.

You can do BTECs with IB actually. The Career-related programme.

do many grammars offer it?

I have no idea about grammar schools. Non selective state schools do though.

But how many non selective state schools are still offering the IB?

I know of quite a few. But then I teach in an IB school.

I did the IB at a non selective state school over 20 years ago! The school is still offering it, alongside A-levels as an alternative choice. I know of other sixth form colleges that offer it too. However, I don't think it suits all kids - you need to be a pretty good all-rounder in order to do well.

Plenty of kids who do the IB go on to do STEM subjects, many at top universities. Some institutions do ask for unrealistically high grades, but the better universities tend to know it well and their expectations are broadly reasonable.

The other advantage of doing the IB is that it opens up a broader range of options for studying abroad. US universities, for example, tend to rate it very highly.

There aren't any schools local to us that offer the IB, either in the state or private sector. I think it's a great pity, as I'd have loved for dd to do it. I think it's a much better qualification overall.