Live 800m from Graveney - any hope?

[MadameLeBean]

As the crow flies we live 0.5miles or 800m from graveney - furthest away offers last two years were 512 and 553 metres I think!! Should I give up all hope of getting in on catchment? It seems very unfair when we live two streets away!

Yes, I think Dunraven's results were better than Graveney's last year.

Given it'd admissions structure (they test but then take the same number from each attainment group from the worst to the best) it gets very impressive results across the board. It's a strong sign that the school itself is good rather than just populated by the brightest. You may be too far away though OP.

I have heard good things about Chestnut Grove too.

You say your DD is well above national average so might she not get a Graveney selective place anyway?

PS out of curiosity why did you decide to.opt for private primary? Only ask as most 'state until 8' families have very clear plans as to what they'll do at 8. Seems odd to have paid to try and get ahead of the curve without an idea of where you were aiming for.

Re how well Graveney serves its non -selective stream students this analysis was on a thread from last year and is enlightening...

From the DOE Performance Tables:

Demography / intake:

Graveney: Low attainers 9%
Middle Attainers 38%
High Attainers 53%

Dunraven: Low attainers: 13%
Middle Attainers: 54%
High Attainers: 26%

So, Graveney has more than twice as many high attainers but both schools have the same % of pupils getting 5 GCSE A-C inc Eng&Maths with 75% for 2013.

Comparing like for like (i.e attainer group against attainer group) the % getting 5GCSE inc maths and Eng:

Graveney - middle attainers: 63%
high attainers: 96%

Dunrave-: middle attainers: 76%
high attainers: 98%

Average score per qualification:

Graveney- High Attainers:A-
Middle Attainers: C+

Dunraven -High Attainers: B+
Middle Attainers: C+

So, on this comparator Graveney gets a slightly better score for it's high attainers - but those high attainers represent a super-selective intake. It gets the same score for middle attainers, where you would expect the groups to be more comparable.

So, if you remove the impact of the super-selective stream, the two schools results are broadly equal.

OP there are loads of bright, academic children not making the top 5% cut for Sutton super selectives yet they would easily make the top 25% in a fully grammar area.

Where do you think they go to school?

A few go private, a few are home educated. The vast majority are happily ensconced in the other schools in Wandsworth, Lambeth, Merton and Croydon that aren't Graveney; schools that you don't even want to look at.

Notinaminute - I have not said I won't look out of wandsworth - I am starting to do that now but those schools will be less likely to take DD anyway given they are further away.

Mintyy you are being very judgey! I'm sure there will be plenty of the "great unwashed" at graveney lol!

Private primary was a choice because this school includes year round and wrap around childcare (outs self!) in the fees so as dh and I work long hours in demanding jobs it was an alternative to a nanny. After school clubs at a state school were never going to work given the time they end and needing to go in early as well (I thoroughly researched this by the way before people accuse me of not doing that - it would have been a relief not to pay fees and no point paying a nanny for 25 hours a week to do pick up and drop off for same cost as private school!)

Thanks will look into Dunraven. Does anyone know anything about the Harris academies?

& as I've said before, my concerns are around academics and motivation - not social demographics!

She may get a graveney selective place (but it's very difficult - apparently they need 100% in the exam) but I just find that so ridiculous that we are under this pressure when that school is 2 streets away!

If you live 0.5 mile from Graveney you have zero chance of Dunraven.

1500 and rising applications for 218 places. You would have to move within about 0.8 mile to stand a chance of a place. Obviously need to factor in siblings etc.

Fair banding admission -5 bands, 20% of places per band. Children placed into a band based on results of Lambeth test.

Historically the top band, highest ability, has the furthest admission distance at March & Sept.

Children in the top bands are working at the level of, and often beyond, children in grammar schools.

You've mentioned several times about a perceived lack of motivation of students in schools other than a Graveney. Perhaps you should be less blinkered, visit some schools and see just how motivated our children are.

PS. I have personal experience of many a time wasting, lazy, unmotivated independent school waster.

Moving to lambeth may not be palatable for you. We have loads of the great unwashed, my family among them!

I guess what I can't understand is what is the problem with being in the same school as children who won't pass their GCSEs.

Most schools set or stream, so your DD will be in a class with people who are going to get roughly the same grade as her at GCSEs. In every subject.

Children in other classes are unlikely to impact on your DDs grades.

One of the big differences between schools is how and when they stream. So when you look round schools you need to ask this.

Not saying there are not time wasters in independent schools and am not closing my mind to all other options but graveney is also our closest and most convenient state school.

Have had a very positive experience with dd's primary school environment and have concerns about the transition - like every parent - and academic results are important to me including the way pupils are streamed and the overall level of attainment at the school.

& I'm not saying I'm not biased - I already said I am since I went to a grammar school where everyone got straight As! Comprehensive school education is an entirely new thing for me to get my head around. I'm not being snobby about social demographics, just want DD to be in the best teaching and pastoral environment that I can manage to get her into - think that is a normal desire.

...just want DD to be in the best teaching and pastoral environment that I can manage to get her into - think that is a normal desire.

Yes, for most parents! Even those that send their children to comp's not called Graveney!

It infuriates me that private school parents think they have the monopoly on aspiration for their children

My DS is top set across all subjects; he and his peers will ace their GCSE's. Their trajectory is to study academic A levels and head off to RG unis. That is the school's expectation of them and, crucially, their expectation of themselves. They are mutually supportive and work bloody hard.

Some children in his school will take another pathway which is just as valid.

These schools serve their children even better than the likes of Graveney because they teach across the ability range and, without getting romantic, they transform lives.

It is easy to teach a high ability child with a supportive family engaged in their education. Teaching well a child lacking in confidence, home support and basic skills is the real measure of a good school.

Comprehensive school education is an entirely new thing for me to get my head around.

It really isn't that difficult.

Wow didn't come on here to be insulted, typical mumsnet! Of course I don't think I have a monopoly on aspiration! Came to get advice given my preferences for a high achieving academic environment. I have not been closed minded, I have explained I have no experience of comprehensive education (and neither does anyone in my family) and the response is to patronise and judge me thanks

Of course I am going to have strong reservations about schools where a non negligible proportion of children don't get five GCSEs.

No one has insulted you.

I'm not sure what you expected when you concede you have no experience of comprehensive education yet spout the same narrow stereotypes about lack of academic rigour and lack of motivation!

Patronising & judgemental? Perhaps you should hold that mirror up to yourself.

My dd goes to a school where not everyone gets 5 GCSE's. A large percentage of students opt for NVQ and vocational courses.
She got 8A's and 3 A* at GCSE and is currently at the same school doing 4 A levels as well as an enrichment activity and her silver DofE

It's not about anyone else. IMHO

So no one is allowed to question the quality of any comprehensive schools lest they be branded judgemental and results mean nothing?

Thank you tantrums for giving some relevant perspective

Based on this discussion I am going to look at how each of the schools results are for each attainment band rather than overall, then look at their pastoral environment speak to parents etc. I still think dd should be able to get in to a state school that is 5min walk from our house, it's ridiculous.

No one has said "results mean nothing". No one!

I really hope your DD's reading, comprehension and reasoning skills are better than those demonstrated by her mother. (Now that probably does constitute an insult!)

Signing off as you are so blinkered that meaningful discourse is not possible.

I am a teacher (nowhere near you) and you should be aware that a proportion of pupils will NEVER get 5 GCSEs, no matter how brilliant the school. They may have additional needs, they may have language issues, they may struggle with reading or with numeracy. They may be completely brilliant at one thing (say Music) and do that to the detriment of all their other subjects. They may come from a tough background, broken home, or have spent months in hospital with cancer.

These pupils are part of a rich and varied experience for other pupils. I was privately educated and taught in private schools as well. I am now proud that my children count amongst their friends both the bright and the struggling, the wealthy, and those on benefits.

A comprehensive education is about LIFE. If you become a Doctor, you have to work with people who are far less educated than you (patients, hospital porters and cleaners). Most jobs and life experiences involve being with a range of people.

The refined and silent atmosphere of the top set or grammar school might allow the chance for quiet learning surrounded by similar people, but it does not teach you LIFE.