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Original poster

Triple Science over Double Science

77 replies

Freeman1 · 29/01/2015 01:15

My eldest in year 9 has just failed his exam to take Triple Science at GCSE level. To say he is disappointed is putting it mildly, no enthusiam for any science now and feels he is a complete failure. I cannot find anything to tell me the disadvantages to future A levels / Uni courses or indeed what the differences are. Is he already at a great disadvantage? Although he has no desire to be a Dr, Rock guitarist (no science req lol) and careers that would require engineering have been mentioned. Please help.

OP posts:
Original poster
Freeman1 · 30/01/2015 18:52

I like what you're saying TalkinPeace. I've been getting him to read the posts so he feels better about it all, and one thing he certainly isn't is thick, but then neither are any of the other double science children. It's just peer pressure I think at the end of the day. He'll come good no matter which option he has to take.

OP posts:
TalkinPeace · 30/01/2015 18:59

Freeman
One of DDs friends will be doing English at probably Oxford. She is not thick. But she is not sciencey. Therefore triple science would just have been a chore.

ChocolateCherry · 30/01/2015 19:08

TalkinPeace is spot on. My dd could have done it at a push but didn't want to.

You have to go in every day and study hard for GCSEs. Let it be in subjects that you feel comfortable, confident and fulfilled in and you will succeed. Wrangling with subjects that don't fit who you are isn't going to get results.

Dd has every intention to go to uni. But she often says how she knows now that she made the right choice for her by not doing the Triple.

Op he is not not not thick. Banish that thought! Think of the things that really fire his interest. Not the stuff he feels ought to. Get a few university prospectuses and have a look at the myriad of subjects and careers that he can aim for. It's so easy at school and under pressure to lose sight of the wider picture.

Leeds2 · 30/01/2015 20:33

At DD's school, in the big talk about choosing options they stressed that doing double science did not stop you doing the A Level. And many have done just that! What they did say though was that students who had done double might have a bit of catching up to do, but only in the first term.

ShipwreckedAndComatose · 31/01/2015 10:16

As a secondary science teacher at an 11-18 school, I couldn't agree more with everything said on this thread.

I always have a mixture of double and triple students in my A level class and doing double science is no hindrance to success at A level. It surprises me how many parents each year assume that double science somehow prevents you from studying A level sciences because it is never a message any teacher I know gives out.

Two excellent GCSE grades always beats three mediocre ones... Every time.

Bunbaker · 31/01/2015 10:43

TalkinPeace is spot on. Some of the most academically able students at DD's school are doing double science because triple science uses up another option and they have chosen another subject in its place, not because they aren't bright enough.

Therefore, doing double science doesn't mean you are thick.

"She does want to do three art subjects but reckons a teacher has told her she won't have enough options to do three art subjects if she does triple science. I'm not sure this teacher is right because I thought doing triple didn't use an extra option."

Art subjects are very coursework heavy. DD is doing GCSE art in one year and already has time conflicts between meeting art homework deadlines and revising for mock exams.

At DD's school if you choose double science you get to choose four more subjects. If you choose triple science you only get to choose three more.

tobysmum77 · 31/01/2015 11:32

I think the key thing here is what ds wants. If my child was being predicted A for double I wouldn't accept they were incapable of triple.

How can the school base this on one exam in year 9? Bonkers, and I'd be backing him up if it's what he wants to do.

Clavinova · 31/01/2015 12:27

A few questions I would want to ask;

Did he unexpectedly fail the triple science test? If yes, why?
If he has vague desires to be an engineer is he good at maths? Otherwise he needs to rethink career options anyway.
How good is the science teaching at the school? Many of the posters on this thread are referring to experiences at selective private schools with excellent teachers and excellent results all round.
How do the double/triple science GCSE and A level results compare for each group at the school? Are the double science takers actually achieving A/A*?
Is the school mixed? If yes, you need the outcomes for the boys.
How many double science takers go on to take Physics and/or Chemistry A levels? I suspect that many double science takers may go on to take Biology A Level but that's not really relevant for engineering.
Certainly the Russell Group Unis recommend separate sciences and there is some research that shows triple science takers have a 76% better chance of achieving grade A or B in Chemistry than those who took double science.
OP's ds is worried about being in a class with those who don't want to learn - is there any substance to this and more importantly do they disrupt those who do want to learn?

Bunbaker · 31/01/2015 16:30

DD's school is a very heavily oversubscribed state comprehensive, and usually 60 students take triple science in year 11.

Mumtotherescueagain · 31/01/2015 16:39

If they are predicting A/A* for double then he's capable of at least B for triple. Triple is better for science knowledge. Double A is better for school fucking league tables than triple B. Make your mind up on that basis and back your child!

Clavinova · 31/01/2015 17:34

Bunbaker - posters on this thread whose dc took double science at GCSE then single science A levels seem to have sent them to selective private schools (with excellent results for science all round) and I wonder if Shipwrecked is a biology teacher?

ShipwreckedAndComatose · 31/01/2015 18:21

Yes shipwrecked is a Biology teacher. At a state comp.

Your observations about A level Biology have some validity perhaps. Although I do see double students being successful in the other sciences too. I think the bigger hinderance at A level physics is the quality of the maths GCSE and not what course they followed for sciences.

Chemistry is perhaps the science that would be the biggest struggle because of the conceptual jump. But I don't think it would be so for students who are very able and chose to use their option for another GCSE rather than triple...

TalkinPeace · 31/01/2015 18:27

At DDs college - where the vast, vast majority of the kids come from Comps - there are kids who do each of the sciences up from double.
Lots of them.

Moher · 31/01/2015 18:31

No selective private school here either. Local state 6th form college.

Original poster
Freeman1 · 31/01/2015 19:21

He did unexpectedly fail down to a couple of issues. He was advised to revise independently but also off BBC Bitesize. He predominantly received 100% for each test he took on Bitesize so we thought he was ok. He claims hardly any of the exam was relevant to the revision suggested.
He is good at maths. 6A currently, predicted 7B (I know not as bright as some but certainly capable)
It's a mixed comp. But your other questions I will certainly look into.

It's worth mentioning that despite all of the positive comments on here with regards to Double, he is still desperate to take Triple. He thinks he can do it. We've given our case to school and he himself has approached Head of Year who is always incredibly supportive of DS.

OP posts:
Clavinova · 31/01/2015 19:43

Well, good luck then op's ds.

Talkin - Approx 20-25% of Chemistry and Physics AS results at Peter Symonds are E and U grades and the subjects then not taken as A levels - it would be interesting to see how many of these results belonged to double science takers. The current PS newsletter features some very successful biology students except that 4 of the 9 students came from independent schools and 1 from a grammar even though the vast majority of students come from comps. Peter Symonds is described as a local state 6th form college Moher.

TalkinPeace · 31/01/2015 19:45

Clavinova
Either name your kids school so I can dissect it or stop stalking me by trawling through the details of my kids' schools

Clavinova · 31/01/2015 20:03

Talkin - Why do you keep trying to cut dead other peoples' opinions with 'facts' that have no substance? I don't believe you know very much about any of the other students at your dd's college or IGCSEs. How would you know who's taken double science at another school or who's struggling in maths because they took IGCSE maths? As for the comp, I don't think it's good advice to say to people move into the catchment of x school and 'relax' when the progress and results for many students is not actually that great.

TalkinPeace · 31/01/2015 20:32

Clavinova
Why do you spend so much time looking up the detailed results of the schools my children attend?

Is your kids school really that dull?

Mumtotherescueagain · 31/01/2015 21:08

If you make it obvious which school your children attend then don't be surprised when people quiz you on that.

gardenfeature · 31/01/2015 21:21

DS chose Double over the Triple option last year. It was Triple or Geography and he is now loving Geography. I think that it's really good that he'll get a GCSE out of the way in Year 10 (better 2 good than 3 mediocre).

One word of caution however....... after 3 years in top sets, he has now found himself in a very mixed ability "top" Double Science class (most of the high achievers chose Triple). He is not happy there and says the work is too easy, despite getting extension work. He is however on track for an A/A*.

nomorehollyoaks · 31/01/2015 21:48

Gardenfeature makes an interesting point. I'd be particularly interested in hearing the experiences of science teachers at comps re these questions:

(a) do you tend to find that even the highest ability double class is on average significantly lower in ability than the triple due to bright kids tending to opt for triple?

(b) is there any tendency for the school to put its best teachers with the ones doing triple to make sure they get the grades to go on to A level, or any tendency to focus its best teachers on double because those are the kids more at risk of not getting the all important C for the league tables? Or have you not noticed any pattern as to which teachers get put with which classes?

VivaLeBeaver · 31/01/2015 22:14

Dd reckons that the kids who are really struggling with science will only do single. Not sure if she's right, not sure if it's possible to do single?

TalkinPeace · 31/01/2015 22:24

Viva
Yes, there is single : it comprises P1, C1 and B1

nomorehollyoaks · 31/01/2015 22:25

At my DS's school, it is compulsory for everyone to do at least double science. (Don't know whether they make any exceptions in practice for those who are really struggling academically, but certainly the message given to the kids is simply that it is compulsory to do at least double science.) So the double science sets will include the kids who have no interest in science at all and are just doing it because they have to.

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