WWYD? Secondary school choices

[gaslamp]

First time poster, long time lurker!

Pondering on this at the moment (actually going round in circles endlessly) and interested in views. Apologies if this ends up being a state vs private debate, not intended to be one.

DD is academically bright and - currently - motivated. Predicted level 6s. Sporty, good all rounder but probably stronger on maths than English. Her academic intelligence has at times outweighed her emotional intelligence by some way. Can be a bit of a perfectionist, not always in a good way. Loves to be stretched and challenged and current school has done this whilst providing great pastoral care when she has needed it.

We will (probably) have the choice of sending our DD (currently in state co-ed primary) to

• 'Good' state co-ed comprehensive (not offered yet but probably 90% chance will get in on distance, fair number of DD's friends going on sibling basis, good reputation locally, sports is meant to be good but tbh it is prob better for boys than girls, non-selective but gets good results I think for a non-selective comp - difficult to tell really)

• Scholarship offer at good girls independent school (train or bus journey but relatively short, good pastoral care, some girls from her school going, school in 25-50 place in league tables depending on year / tables, all the sports she likes are played, popular in our area and has a good reputation and we know girls who've been there recently and they / parents rave about it, feels 'affordable' with scholarship, intake is probably more mixed than the comp which has small catchment in v middle class area)

• Offer at top 10 girls school (prob best girls school in the area, consistently in top ten schools league tables without fail, stellar results, great facilities etc - but fees that go with it (will stretch us), further away - can go on train or school coach but journey is longer therefore, don't think anyone else she knows will go and think their prep school intake is quite high, has a reputation for being pressured amongst those who don't go there but from those who do they say it is competitive but in a good way...has a nice feel when you go round it, but she would def be one of lots of bright girls)

Everyone says she will do well wherever she goes - but I'm not so sure. We are very lucky to have this choice (assuming we get an offer from state comp) and we liked all of the schools when we visited but they are all quite different and have different pros and cons.

WWYD? I normally make quick decisions on gut instinct but really struggling as this feels such a big decision.

How convenient is choice 1, the (?) local comp with friends & probable good support system?

Are either of the Indie schools pressure cookers? I know with my high-ability DD she pushes herself hard enough, I wouldn't want her in a super high achieving environment. Mine is also sporty & does somewhat better being the big fish in small pond rather than other way around.

Which school does your DD like? Mine chose and definite made best choice for her.

I'm only going by what you posted, so possibly not accurate, but....you sound most positive about the middle option. It has fewer negatives, from what you say, and lots of positives.

The other thought I had was....what does your dd say about it all? Does she have a preference?

Does she mix well with boys? Does she do out of school activities with boys?

Personally I'd be tempted by the state secondary as pressurised single sex school sounds intense and rocky.

Does DD have a strong view on it? Does she want to go to all girls school? At that age I would have been definite that there was no way I was going to all girls grammar. My DD would be the same now and want to walk to the local good comp. I am actually very wary of all girls pressure cookers

Gaslamp, what's stopping you from trusting your gut on this one? And your dd's gut, too?

And, btw, welcome to MN

Middle one

I know a girl at a top ten school and the pressure is literally making her sick (and then she frets about having time off because they "don't allow that")

Gut tells me not the third option - not sure how DD would respond to the pressure, could go either way. Flattering to get in and well done to her - but concerned it is a bit too far as well (so socially bit more difficult and if she plays in sports teams and finishes late, will miss coach and one of us will be going to fetch her!). think could be a pressure cooker. DD not keen on standing out, but not sure she would like to be small fish in big pond. Am a bit dazzled by the third option tbh - can't quite believe she got in but apparently scored well in the exam. One thing that goes in favour of this school is that DD is a bit inclined to want to downplay her intelligence - wants to be one of the crowd. Would like her to be somewhere where it is cool to be clever?

Gut tells me comp (yes it is local lljkk) or the middle option (not a pressure cooker and they are working hard to persuade her / us to take the scholarship). Can't decide between the two and DD likes both as well. Not sure what she would pick given the choice, change from day to day!

She leans towards co-ed but when we narrowed down the independent school exams she would sit (took 2) she ruled out both the co-ed options (this may be a sign of pre-teen changes that have taken place in last 6 months though since we made those choices!). She gets on easily with boys, mixes with them easily and is in a sports club that has both boys and girls as members.

Don't forget that you are only making the choice for KS3 and KS4. As long as GCSEs are good enough you can go elsewhere for sixth form if you are worried about A Level grades.

Can I add - all of your posts so far have been really helpful, thank you! Have discussed with family and friends - but everyone has their own perspective that they bring to the table on these schools (particularly if they are making the same kind of decision this year!), muddies the waters. That's really why I've not named them.

Yes was thinking that earlier Senua - she might well want to move after GCSEs wherever she goes, so starting to look at this as a choice for the next five years (with half an eye on the following two)

I don't know what it is like in the UK in relation to subject options at secondary school bit it is precisely because my dd is good at maths and not Languages that I was to send her to a co ed school. The single sex school does not teach some of the traditionally more male dominated subjects that I feel it is likely dd will persue, not as many options for Physics, Mechanics, Technical drawing etc. However that might not be an issue in the UK.

I would send her to your middle choice. Largely because of easy journey - this is important - but also because, having a scholarship, she will feel "important". Regardless of whether that is an academic or sports scholarship.

I have always avoided schools for my DD, now nearly 17, where I thought she would feel inadequate academically.

If you lived local to me, and the schools were the ones which match your description.

I would go for the Comp, because from personal experience it is great. But it all depends what you think a "good" comp is. however whilst in my experience girls schools do offer Physics etc., and can even have a better take up than co-ed schools. Comps do offer a wider choice of subjects.

With the third one I would worry from your description that your DD may lose confidence when she is surrounded by lots of other extremely bright girls.

But in my area it is "cool" to be clever in most schools, and everywhere is a bit pressure cooker like.

If you go for the Comp you will have more money for: Tutors if she needs a confidence boost, trips and other extras.

Not number 3. I can't see any benefit from it.

We are sort of in a similar position with ds, although we decided quite early on. We are going with the state secondary, mainly because it seems the best "fit".

Anothernumberone - the girls schools are both strong on science and maths. Not necessarily the case in all schools, but is for these.

Mummytime - ofsted rating is good. Gets 70-80% A-C inc English & Maths for GCSE. Locally thought of as a very good school. That's why I'm wondering if being foolish to pay. Subject choices are pretty broad at all the schools for GCSE. Students seem to take more though at the comp.

Round in circles again

If she excels in maths, I'd look closely at what the schools offer in this subject, provided she enjoys maths. Do the schools set for maths and how quickly?

Think comp sets for maths straightaway, not sure when / if they set or stream for anything else. (Is it better if they do?)

Not sure on others.

Shd ask - going to see all the schools again in a few weeks.

expanding on the maths point - what do they do to extend the most able in maths - do they offer Additional/Further maths GCSE to these pupils, as this generally prepares them best for A level maths. How many go on to do maths A level and are there good results at A Level as well. This is important because the new GCSE maths course has some of the AS level maths injected into it, and the schools that cope well with this change will most likely be the ones that have strong A level maths teaching so are not thrown by the changes.

Personally I would also go with the Comp as long as it does well in maths (and any other key subjects for DD) plus you think she would be happy there. There may be the odd subject you may find you need to boost outside of school, but this is not at all hard to do and might also be the case in private.

Thank you - going to add these to my list of things to find out

Those are good results, because remember a Comp does (usually) take anybody.
My DCs school sets for Maths after about 1 month (although they is very good research against setting for Maths, but you have to teach the correct way for that). I think Science, MFL, and English get set at the end of year 7; everything else is mixed ability.

I'd try to get a sneaky look at pupil behaviour after school. The Comp similar to the one you describe (and not the one my DC go to, but I have worked there), has such lovely students - even the naughty ones.

The middle girls school.

I think girls do better at maths and science when there aren't boys in the class. Plus you say parents rave about it so I guess everyone thinks pastoral care is good there.

My gut instinct says option 2. I would rule out option 3 because why put your family through the financial stretch and the long school journey when you have the option of another good independent girls school without those disadvantages?

I would really query your assertion that option 2 has a more mixed intake than the comp! Not saying it could never happen, but it just sounds so unlikely to me that an independent school would have a more mixed intake than a comp. Our local comp is good and oversubscribed giving it a small and relatively affluent catchment area, but it would still have much more of a mixed intake than any local independent school.

Unless the comp is very unusual, it will still have its share of disruptive kids. It's unlikely that the comp will set in every subject, so it is still likely that your daughter will end up being taught for a number of lessons in a mixed ability group with some kids who are intent on disrupting the lesson. If option 2 school finds itself with a deliberately disruptive pupil, it can presumably swiftly threaten expulsion and be in a position to carry it through.

The fact that you know parents whose daughters have been to the option 2 school recently and rave about it is, I think, a very good sign.

I also think option 2 sounds best. Might your DD, in later years, wonder why you turned down a scholarship for her?

We had a similar dilemma and felt very strongly that DS would be far better as a big fish rather than sitting in the bottom half of a highly selective school. We felt that he wasn't mentally strong enough not to feel that he had failed.

We went for the comp which was absolutely the right decision. It's a high performing comp which sets in every subject from day 1 and he's in the top 1/3 of the top sets in everything except art & music. The results are 85% A-C with mostly IGCSE's and over 50% EBACC so we felt confident that his academic outcomes will be similar in either school.

It's hard to turn down a place at a highly selective school which has such a brilliant reputation and results but it's so important not to be blinded by that and to do what's right for your child.

option 2