Mandatory pan year group dyslexia testing in schools

[Kate6490]

I'm not comfortable with the fact my child's school is introducing pan year group, mandatory dyslexia testing. I feel that if I felt my child had an issue, or indeed her teacher during primary years who knew her well and had had long experience of her work or progress recommended such action, then a test may be justified but my daughter has only just started at her new secondary school and they are wheeling the whole year group, en masse, through the testing which I feel is going to be expensive for the school in terms of money and time, non specific in that the initiative is going to be a blunderbuss approach at the entire year group ... and outcomes will, in some cases, be, I believe, counter productive. I've heard of instances when other learning disabilities or educational challenges within a class or year group are conveniently labelled 'dyslexia' in order to get the extra TA help or funding that a school requires; that pupils incorrectly or prematurely labelled then have to cope with a the 'stigma' of dyslexia for the rest of their lives (not all employers are equally well informed about dyslexia and they can and do view it as a 'disability' and could adopt a prejudicial approach to job offers as a result), and I'm also concerned, that, in the fullness of time, it might be to her disadvantage if, when asked, she has to say 'yes, I was tested for dyslexia', and then never get the chance to explain that it was a blanket all year group policy and no one was given the chance to 'deselect'. Anyone got any thoughts on this one?

Thanks all! Interesting viewpoints. I'll take it all into consideration before I make a final decision over whether to 'deselect' from school on the day of testing, or not. What I am completely sure of though is that it will be my decision about the course ultimately taken; I do not support mandatory school wide policy decision making on testing without parental input or consultation and I'm very glad that I caught this 'in the bud' before it could go ahead without my consent. Thanks 'poisonwood' for your valuable point about the need to drill down further on exactly what these tests comprise, and 'gardenfeature' for highlighting to me the dangers inherent in inadequate testing potentially 'masking' the problem for those who have learned 'great coping mechanisms'. To 'wheresthebeach' all I can say is that I hope its clear my 'head is not in the sand at all' on this one, hence the search for considered, intelligent discussion, but I am not prepared to relinquish parental input to important decision making on testing of this nature to the school and I do want to remain 'part of the loop' in matters relating to my child's education. I don't think the school regards my questioning about this process as 'troublesome', in fact I would be surprised and disappointed if they did. Good schools do not view parental questioning as problematic; rather they see it is an opportunity to engage in discussion, have their own policies tested and to hear whether and why parents have concerns about their children's welfare and education. Disengaged parents do not help a school or school policy forward. I do not want my child's school to assume a parental decision making role on my behalf, and I think the school needs to know this. I am aware of all testing that goes on at the school (as far as I know; the school is pretty good about parent-school communication and I believe they do inform about upcoming schedules, tests, initiatives, trips and outings etc). Some I question and seek to know more, some I allow to go ahead without comment as if feel it is good, desirable and to the benefit of my child in particular and to her school in general. I see that just as the normal role of any engaged parent.

You sound interfering rather than engaged to be honest and a bit Dunning- Kruger.

I'm yet to meet any job application form that wanted to know about dyslexia or disability, so how would having dyslexia, or even just having been tested, lead to discrimination by employers? Unless someone wants accommodations in a test, they won't mention it until offered a job, if at all.

I have never heard of anyone being asked if they have been tested for dyslexia either.

Bruffin

Kate Would you feel the same need to be "engaged" if the school was administering hearing or eye tests? Or would you have a similar knee jerk reaction against it because you entertain similar prejudices about people who wear glasses or hearing aids? That if your DD were to admit to an employer that she had had an eye test, because of course employers explore every possible avenue of disability in defiance of the Equalities Act, she would be discriminated against? And do you consider yourself more of an expert on your daughter's sight than an optician and therefore feel completely convinced that you know that your daughter is not short sighted, and that her sight is not a source of difficulty at school?

It really is no different, a Dyslexic pupil properly supported is given the aids that enable them to achieve their potential just as a short sighted person is given the glasses that enable them to see. And you really cannot say with complete conviction that your child is either not short sighted or not Dyslexic without expert advice. And anyone who made generalisations about people with glasses would be guilty of prejudice wouldn't they? And if they did it in relation to employment they would be guilty of discrimination, and could find themselves in court? Though of course someone who is short sighted probably will not be keen on becoming a sniper / assassin..................

Primary school missed my niece's dyslexia, fortunately her secondary school did pick it up and she has gone on to to get an excellent degree and now has a good job. I would have been happy if my children had been expected to participate in a whole year group dyslexia test.

I seem to have touched a nerve here. Sorry if I have rattled something within you in some way. Mine is not a knee jerk reaction and I have highlighted the fact that I am seeking further thoughts and information on the issue. I find it inherently uncomfortable that the school believes they can make these decisions about my child without my consent. I would feel exactly the same way if I heard they were testing her sight or hearing and I would want to know why and what had given rise to this perceived need. As far as I am concerned I am in charge of my child's development, health and welfare and I pass responsibility for providing education to the school, with me in a parental authority capacity, but I'm not ready to hand over my parenting role wholesale to the school, now or anytime in the future. I reserve the right to be informed about all matters relating to my child at the school and I wish to be asked for consent if she is to be involved in anything beyond the normal school day and regular curriculum. I am responsible for my child and I intend to remain in charge until she takes over responsibility for herself.

Also I don't entertain prejudices .. but sadly others do. Sometimes, through no fault of their own (and not through prejudice either) good applicants are excluded on some physical, social or educational dimension from jobs they would love to occupy because of impairment which they cannot avoid. Contrary to what you allege there are many jobs which exclude on disability, impairment or physical inappropriateness. For instance potential pilots are 'deselected' if their vision isn't 20/20 .. those who are colour blind are excluded from some pars of the navy, epileptics aren't permitted in the army

In terms of making decisions about testing that I think my daughter may or may not need ... I wouldn't take my daughter to an orthodontist (dental specialist) unless my dentist recommended it (first line dental expert) - why would I seek out specialist testing unless I had good reason to believe she was in need? I know my daughter doesn't need optical intervention or optical surgery because, ON MY OWN RECONNAISSANCE, I've had her checked and monitored throughout her childhood and am assured that there is not a problem by a first line optical expert - an optician.

Similarly, I have had faith in her primary school teachers and long knowledge and experience of their expertise. I believe them when they say she's moving in line with her age and expectations ... they are professionals. If I have placed my faith and trust them ... why would I question them? They know my daughter, they are highly trained and good at their work, otherwise I would never have left her in their care .... if I had any doubts about her progress or the ease with which she was moving through the school system then I would have sought intervention a long, long time ago and found my own way through intelligent questioning and investigation to dyslexia testing, had I felt the need. I don't need her secondary school, 8 weeks in to their knowledge of her, to make these decisions for me without any reference to me about dyslexia training.

Sorry, meant to say this was in response to Bruffin's post ... I also meant *dyslexia testing in my final sentence (not training) ... and I don't really think the Dunning Kruger reference is particularly helpful. This is an exploratory discussion I'm initiating, pre-decision. I am not putting myself in any sort of an expert role (other than as a parent - where I can claim some expertise after 19 years and 3 children), but it is my job to research, find out, investigate and make the best judgement that I can on the results.

Once I have heard from as many sources I can access, both expert and lay .. then I shall make a decision, until then the jury remains 'out'. One thing I am certain of and that is that I should not be blindly led 'experts' who profess to know what they are talking about but whose bona fides I have had no chance to establish. The world is full of charlatans and I do not know who is behind this latest initiative to wheel the whole year group through for testing but I've seen enough flawed government initiatives in the past to know that before I'd place faith in blindly signing up to any one of them on my own behalf or that of children in my care, I'd want to know more about it. Frankly, if I had to chose, I'd prefer to go on the advice of those I do know and trust and have had long experience of, her primary school teachers ... they did a great job over the previous 7 years and I have no reason to doubt their care and expertise.

I think the nerve touched is yours. Why the big issue about a screening test? The school thinks its a good idea - you are not about to 'hand over my parenting role wholesale to the school' by letting them get on with this test.
Would you get this emotional about a CAT test? You are making this into a much bigger deal than it is. It's almost like you feel insulted that your daughter is being checked for dyslexia.

This isn't about you...it's about looking for kids who have dropped through the net at primary. Sure, not all will be found, bright dyslexics with a good work ethic can get past general screening.

Why not cooperate with the school and let them get on with their jobs!

Because I'd prefer that the limited resources available are spent on those who do need the help ..

Because I'd prefer that the limited resources available are spent on those who do need the help ..

So now you are best person to decide how the school uses it's limited resources?

How about respecting the decisions and recommendations of the professional teachers?

Also, there is nothing emotional here and it is definitely not about me, but I am responsible for my daughter's educational well being ... I'm not dyslexic, neither is my daughter, many I know are; I'd prefer the resource available went in their direction rather than where it is not wanted and not required. If a child is struggling, or in need of help, or a parent or a teacher has any concerns, why can that not trigger help and a discussion about dyslexia testing. If there is no issue and no help sort or wanted, why have mandatory testing? It is the sense of this .. and the money ... If there is money to be thrown around I would much prefer to see it spent on extra sport, or maths, or drama ... or maybe even on a specialist dyslexia unit in school ... not on some blunderbuss approach which I suspect will be little more than a box ticking exercise. As so many in this thread have already acknowledged, most of whom have more direct experience of dyslexia than I do, tests like these run the risk of missing those who do need help but are disgusting well with coping mechanisms thus prolonging the issue as they self define through testing as not needing extra assistance. In my view this is a very ill advised use of money and resources.

No Wheresthebeach .. not the 'best' person, but one person in a community of many. We do live in a democratic society and I would PREFER that resources are spent in a manner that will do greatest good to those in greatest need. I respect teachers of course, especially those who know their pupils. My child's primary school teachers had got to know her well, over 7 years, and advised me that she was meeting expectations for her age group. I respect that. Why would I deny their expertise in favour of someone making policy at the new school whom I do not know, have never met, who does not know my child?

Why not support your current school? Why not respect their views and decisions? Why double guess them and waste their time?

The school your daughter is in has made the decision to do screening test for dyslexia - and you're all riled up because there is 'no issue and no help sort or wanted'.

These tests may highlight issues that need further investigation. It's not going to be a full screening but may show issues for some students that need looking at. Parents aren't experts on learning difficulties - sometimes there needs to be a screening test to facilitate conversations between parents and the school.

Your daughter, if there are no issues, doesn't exactly suffer by taking a screening test does she? Would you have refused the phonics test in primary for the same reason? After all, if a child doesn't get phonics that's often the first hint of an issue. The phonics test is a good indicator for primary schools; just as this one is for her secondary school.

My DC primary school are very slow use term dyslexia.

They did do some kind of screening test administered by SENCO as DD1 was showing a lot of reading and spelling issues inconsistent with the ability she was demonstrating to her teachers in other areas - she was borderline - what ever that means but I only found out afterwards months later- when we mention specific issues she was having.

It did seem to be used more as a reason not to give her extra help. She now gets help but it's years later when despite considerable help at home her spelling is a very notable poorer than her teachers expect of a child with her ability and she is very self conscious about this and her reading.

Similarly with DS - they've decided he needs extra help with co-ordination though they can't tell us why they decided that but as it occurred in school time and breaks - he didn't tell us so we didn't find out for an entire school year.

My own primary school teachers and secondary school teachers all missed my dyslexia and my co-morbid dyspraxia.

Well that not true - they knew something was up with me but decided if I worked harder it would go away and encouraged a similar dismissed attitude to any problems I had with my parents. So when I was finally diagnosed after 3 hours of testing with an educational psychologist it was all well yes we all thought that .

So for my point if of view a school that actively looks to see there are problems that may have been missed so they can offer support is a very good thing.

Incidentally I have good A-levels, degree and MSC ( both from red brick uni if that matters). I have never encountered any prejudice from employers and in fact many have not asked at all.

DH in higher education has encounter some of his student who don't have the formal diagnoses needed to get them the extra time in exams - that is pretty standard requirement as schools never pointed out this step for them.

I've no idea why the school has decided that it's worth their time and money - both of which in any school are finite - but they obviously have. Given they are the professionals in this case with more information about the school it seems odd to me for a parent to be so anti-this.

But they are cognitive ability tests, OP. Testing different aspects of learning. It's actually fun.

We got a Parentmail message recently to say that they're screening all of DD's year group soon - but it made it clear that there was an opt-out.
Seems like a good idea - pity that it's so late (she's yr11) but I guess better late than never.

kate You have not produced a single bit of rational evidence for your views. Every poster here has tried to get over to you that what your school is proposing is not some undercover plot to stigmatise your child, but best practise which, though not perfect, is already used in many good schools, including the most academic in the country. As a result I can assure you from experience very bright pupils whose "engaged" parents had absolutely no idea they had a learning difficulty have been diagnosed and have received support and gone on to achieve greater things than they would if they had not taken the test.

As you say, you wouldn't not take your child to an opticians because you have decided their sight is fine, so why not have her take some tests to make sure she has not got a SpLD. You cannot say categorically unless that she does not, actually even if she does take the test, that has been pointed out to you. The tests are not stressful, and I fail to see why schools like Westminster would be implementing them if they were to be a lasting blight on their pupils employment prospects.

And why are you choosing to have greater faith in Primary School teachers who may have had one two hour lecture on SpLDs in the course of their training (that is the training given at Roehampton University, which as the Froebel Institute has always been at the forefront of teacher training) than a secondary school management team, with a trained SENCO? lots of posters have pointed up how common it is for primary school teachers to miss Dyslexia. My younger DDs Prep School teachers didn't accept the diagnosis even when they had a report from an Ed Psych, "she is bright, it is just she is slow and like an overexcited puppy tripping over herself". Most Secondary school have far better strategies in place as your DD's school is demonstrating.

And you show a profound ignorance of the disability legislation. I have worked on the Milk Round and I can assure you that the onus on an employer to demonstrate that they have not discriminated means that when interviewing any organisation with a robust HR set up tread very carefully indeed. There is no obligation on the part of the interviewee to disclose disability or illness, and the interviewer cannot ask any disability related questions. The criteria for legally excluding anyone from consideration for a role means that exemptions are very rare indeed.

Not only are spld missed in primary but many get to university without diagnosis. A friend's dd wanted to follow a certain career path. She did well in secondary but had to take an extra year to do her A levels to get the results she required. She worked hard and did a new A level in just a year self studying while taking a full time job.No indication of any learning difficulties until she started her uni course where she was found to be dyspraxic and incapable of passing the course. If she had known earlier she would have taken a different path.
My dcs over the years have had eye and hearing tests and developmental tests at school. My sisters shortsighted was picked up at school. She thought everyone was short sighted so never said anything to my parents . Nobody in our family wore glasses so they were not clued up what to look for. It was only after they recognised the things she was doing were indications of her poor sight.

Unfortunately most primary miss or will not help with a dyslexic child.

My eldest dd is clearly dyslexic, like me, her dad and at least 3 uncles. But I'm told because her reading is a level 5a , she yr 6 so at 3 levels higher then most other children in her year and average. But her writing is barely a level 4c. But I have been told because she read so well she can not be dyslexic. She cannot spell for toffee, she can spell the same word 5 different ways in one piece of work and if asked can tell you the correct spelling. And every year she has had individual one to one spelling help and it is not improving.

When looking for her high school I have made a point of speaking to all the English teachers to see what help they have for someone with undiagnosed dyslexia and have been honest about her needs and lucky for us they have all made notes so should she get into either school they will test her and she will get the help she needs in Yr7.

Well that's great to hear. Thank you everyone; what an interesting information gathering exercise that was.

I'm going to pass on now to find out more from the school itself about what exactly their pan year group dyslexia testing involves; and to ask among the HR professionals within my network for their thoughts and views on the value or otherwise of blanket, indiscriminate use of dyslexia testing for all. It is clear to me that many among you, especially those who have either personal or very direct experience of dyslexia, feel passionately on the issue; perhaps it is because I have no direct experience of it myself, nor have anyone (to the best of our knowledge anyway) in my family who has experienced it either, that I do not have it 'high on my agenda' as an issue I feel desperate need to explore where my daughters are concerned. As I said, luckily I have two pretty much launched and a third moving satisfactorily along the educational pathway and so, understandably, I do not feel the need to subject her to tests, and the state to the time and cost for tests that I do not think she needs. Just my view; luckily we live in a democratic state and we are entitled to hold different opinions and each seek answers to our questions in our own individual ways. Thank you and farewell!

Kate6490 Keep us posted as to excatly what the testing involves. I would be very interested to find out. I know that my DS could easily be missed by some tests (reading, spelling) but perhaps not others (phonics/reading nonsense words).

Clutterbugsmum I have the exact same story with my DS. Secondary school has been much much better but at the end of the day it is the students who are 2 years behind that will get extra support. The emphasis at secondary switches away from the three Rs so the dyslexic kids at get a chance to shine. DS can use a laptop in lessons and will use one for his exams. Spelling and punctuation still poor, (he will lose out on the SPaG marks) but content and subject knowledge great. He got a Level 3 writing in SATS (Level 5 reading) and rapidly worked his way up from bottom to top set English. He's aiming for an A in English Literature. Beware of the school CATs tests underestimating your DD's ability. Should add that DS has moderate dyslexia rather than severe and for a student battling with severe dyslexia it can be a different story.

Oh for heavens sake. The testing is just using computer based programme called Lucid Rapid or Lucid Exact. The scores DO NOT STATE OR DIAGNOSE DYSLEXIA. YOUR DAUGHTER WILL NOT BE LABELLED. sorry about the caps but you need shouting at as frankly your hysteria is just going to get you branded as 'loon mother' and your poor daughter pitied for the rest of her school days. The results give an indication that their MIGHT be tendencies. Any SENCO worth their salt will then ask teachers if they notice anything over the term and then, only if concerns are raised, talk to parents about getting more formal diagnosis.

It is our duty to pick up any underlying difficulties early and not wait until a child fails their GCSE to find they've been struggling for years.

I would say more but frankly as a SENCO, a mother of a dysexic, and teacher of the lovliest group of pupils ever, you boil my piss and you need to get a grip and stop putting your psychological hysteria over something which is helpful (although not perfect) onto your poor daughter's school.

Christ Kate , what a lot of angst about nothing ! Chill out