Tristram Hunt's Speech

[kellyandthecat]

So, what did everyone think?

www.theguardian.com/education/2014/nov/24/private-schools-labour-warning-tax-breaks-tristram-hunt

Seems to me like Labour have made a big deal out of it but he hasn't really done anything at all, and it's a bit hard for him to sound sincere when he's so posh himself. Honestly, I don't know why Labour don't just admit they were wrong and bring back the grammar schools. DH and I both went to grammar schools and are putting/have put our DCs through private. Hate how in this country politicians can't just admit they were wrong! It's a strength in any other area of leadership surely?! All this messing around on the margins just looks like pointless busy work - I would not support it but I would be more impressed with their convictions if they said they were going to take away the charitable status. Making them play football together?! Stupid.

My DD has attended music days at the local Private schools that she has very much enjoyed. I think one also offers an acting workshop which she didn't attend because it's not her thing, but still it's there for local kids who want a go. Our primary uses another private school's pool for its swimming lessons. Our local high school can't even support an orchestra and there is certainly no pool.

But what puts me off, is the lack of intellectual passion and curiosity. It's just not a self consciously intellectual place and the teachers speaking local dialect doesn't win me or DH over either. (I realise this makes me sound snobby. In that regard, maybe I am. I may as well be honest on an anonymous forum.)

yyytalkinpeace I worry very much about the holding tank mentality of some badly resourced PRUs. PRUs should be about helping the students who need additional behavioural and emotional support and not (as is the case in some areas) just placing the children somewhere because the law says they are entitled to a full time education. I have worked with families who have children in PRUs and the provision is patchy and sometimes good and other times woeful.

inthedark
My DH is, among other things, a fully qualified A level Chemistry teacher
a job he's never taken up
because
he found the "social work" soul destroying

parents who are in a position to afford private school, by definition, will find it hard to comprehend disorganised families who are unable to organise food, let alone uniform, let alone reliable school attendance
BUT
getting dysfunctional families under control is a no brainer
AND
there is a place for taking the really, really bright kids from such families and actively displacing them to schools like Eton and Benenden and Winchester and Roedean
as with perspective they will benefit
BUT
to go way, way back up thread
as WG and HG and I agreed
100% is worth 50 times 10%
or to put it another way,
6 100% bursary scholars (and they WILL know who each other are)
will have better WP outcomes than a solitary lad/gel

I agree with most of what you say talkinpeace but I do think that some private school users have a reasonable understanding of disorganised families. I think some families like myself have chosen private school partly because we have experience of disorganised families and want something different for our own children.
I have worked with troubled families, many whose children were in PRUs.
I also come from a family where every adult male and some of the females have been to prison at least once (some to YOIs as juveniles and later to HMPs).
Quite a few of the parents at my child's private school are teachers or social workers and have a reasonable understanding of dysfunctional families. I don't think all private school parents are blinkered to the lives of others, some are and some are not, just like state school parents really. Having enough money to go private doesn't always mean that people are blinkered to the lives of others who don't have much money and some of them might have had times where they didn't have any money themselves.

I think DDs school is well placed to help DC like this.

It is small, incredibly nurturing, tight knit and weekly boarding ( fe those who want it).

There is a girl in DDs year who has been in care and following her placement with her GPs has a full bursary to attend DDs school.

The kind and structured environment suits her well and she is thriving.

That said, many DC passing through the care system need something far more expert than this.

As many know amongst other groups over the years Ive work with disorganised families/individual.
If Im being completely honest I just don't see Winchester and others of it's ilk as the right schools for these children. Win Coll is an exceedingly tight knit community, in fact it's probably the most collegiate school out there, and IME pastoral care is outstanding and there is no need to conform in terms of personality but this is a school for the self starter, the expectation is that you'll hit the ground running there is little settling in time. Boys have to be organised in the school work and to get the most put of it go out and find things for themselves it's all there but nothing comes to you. There are also surprisingly few rules the school is very liberal. Parents and children have to like and thrive in this kind of atmosphere IME very sadly children from disorganised families have yet to develop these skills. Others or indeed the school itself might disagree of course but this is my personal opinion.

The discussion of PRUs is convincing and clear.

To continue pushing this along (sorry if that's patronising), in a under-performing school, where a decent PRU exists, what other measures would we priortise to make a real improvement to the remaining (majority) of students that wouldn't be using the PRU?

Perhaps the schools need access to a menu of things which they can choose from to suit their needs?

To recap:

1. More and better PRUs
2. Better careers and "exit" services
3. Raise teaching standards (weed out the bottom decile every year?)
4. Enhanced differentiation in teaching (more teachers, smaller classes, banded intake to guarantee numbers in low/med/high sets?)

Perhaps it's time for teachers on this thread to take over a bit and discuss what they think:

a) is already there but not working;
b) what needs to be there and isn't; and
c) what is there but is waste of time, resource and distracting.

the teachers speaking local dialect doesn't win me or DH over either.

How do teachers speak in private schools then?

Neutrally. With correct grammar.

Goodness.

I speak neutrally. With correct grammar. I teach in a state school; whatever next?!

I am sure you do. I have to make choices based upon what is on offer where I live.

"TBH A lot of the "low level disruption" can be dealt with by making use of effective PRU and specialist Units."

By 'low level disruption' I mean silly behaviour, like children taking a long time to settle in the lesson, turning up without equipment, then making a fuss about it, arriving late for lessons, talking and not staying on task.

I'm not talking about the sort of behaviour for which PRU's are appropriate - persistent aggression/school refusal etc.

And as the parent of a child who has been very difficult at school I'm very happy that she avoided a PRU - but this was only because her school has an excellent EBD unit within the school. This meant she could be educated separately from the other pupils while her issues were being addressed, but now that she's settled down, she's back in the classroom with minimum disruption to her GCSE's.

I'd like to see more good quality EBD provision within schools, and fewer pupils ending up in PRU's.

By 'low level disruption' I mean silly behaviour, like children taking a long time to settle in the lesson, turning up without equipment, then making a fuss about it, arriving late for lessons, talking and not staying on task.

That type of stuff might not be enough to warrant placement in a PRU but it is still too disruptive for mainstream classes if happening on a daily basis. I would rather go private if I could afford it than leave my child's education negatively affected by children turning up late, not settling, talking in class etc.

In some school there is internal exclusion for a day, or a lesson, which only works if the child is kept separate from others at break time and leaves the school later. They soon get fed up of not being with their mates. However this tends only to be for serious matters - eg swearing at the teacher, fighting. The talking and not listening when instructions are given slows the pace of the class and is infuriating for DC who want to learn.

inthedark
If you really think that backchat and messing about do not happen in private schools you are sadly deluded.
There is less of it but private schools are businesses so they will keep the income stream coming wherever possible.

Roehampton
Internal exclusions are a joke.
They are a waste of staff time and just cause resentment.

DH has commented from visiting hundreds of schools that on discipline, schools that focus on carrot rather than stick are always the happiest.

talkin I don't for one minute think that such things don't happen in private schools but I do think (maybe inaccurately) that they are less likely to tolerate Such things long term from a specific pupil.

I think one of the ways independent schools can keep low level disruption down is the type of sanctions that can and do mete out.

Punishments which are a royal PITA for the offender and soon discourage tardiness, disorganisation, general cheekiness.

Completely agree with the carrot rather than the stick, but sometimes a punishment is required, and better that it is something inconvenient for the perp than the teacher. In my DC indie, detentions happen, but the class teacher does not police them, they are centrally supervised. Usually in school s it means the class teacher needs to remain behind, which is a waste of their time, and may not be possible if they have meeting s etc.
If I have lessons before break, lunch or end of day, I reward the Dc who have been especially good by allowing them to leave 3 mins early. 3 mins means nothing in the scheme of things, but is seen as a privilege, and works far better than the stick of keeping them behind.