International baccalaureate for average child?

[Gunznroses]

We are considering schools for ds, whose academics have been up and down a lot due to medical issues. Recently we have been considering a number of schools but recently saw one we like very much for him (senior school) but they only do IB or Cambridge Pre U. Looking forward I don't see DS doing the pre-u but wondering how challenging he might find the IB, we know very little about it, he is not a straight A student, we're confident he'll be able to get into the school but just not sure about the tail end of it. Can anyone advise?

vimeo.com/108158198

This is a link to a Sevenoaks School IB information video, I think it goes on a bit but it may be worth a look as it explains the IB well.

For the IB, you do three subjects at Higher Level and three at Standard Level, so six subjects in total. You have to do a mother tongue (ie, English for you), a science, a MFL, a humanity and maths. There is a free choice of the sixth subject, which can also be music, drama, art or dance.

You have a completely free choice of which three subjects to do at which level. HL is a bit like A2, and SL is a bit like AS for some of the subjects. For some subjects - certainly biology - SL is almost as much as A2.

You also have to do an extended essay of 4,000 words.

I do think it is harder than A levels - doing six subjects must be more difficult than three - but the way of learning is good preparation for university.

The IB is much more balanced than A levels, but then you have scientist-oriented students that have to write a lot, and arts-oriented students that have to continue doing a science and maths until the end of year 13.

Here are my random thoughts on the IB...

I've had 2 DC do the IB and 2 DC do Alevels. (Within the last five years, DC4 is currently doing her A2s)
The 2 that did IB did well and enjoyed it but the IB undoubtably a lot more work than A levels.

Universities seem to ask for higher grades in the IB than in A levels. I know that's subjective but I know a lot of people think it.

A lot of my DCs friends who had really excellent GCSEs bombed the IB and there were a lot of suprised and dissapointed IB students on results day ( this may be a reflection of my DCs school rather than the IB though) it seems harder to predict results as everything counts on the final exams.

Doing a broader range of subjects was good for my DC - they got a lot out of having to do subjects that they would have otherwised dropped after GCSE.

A levels offer more flexibility as you can drop subjects as you go along if you find the work load too challenging. Quite A few kids at my younger DCs school started dropped further maths after realising it wasn't for them. There is no flexibility to do this with the IB

One advantage with the IB is that students get their results much earlier than the A level students. It they do well it means they can have a relaxing long summer before Uni and if they do badly they have much more time to formulate a plan B.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend the IB. My DC only did the IB as they were mostly educated abroad. We wouldn't have choosen it otherwise.

Some schools do get amazing IB results though.

Just to say reading all the comments, thanks for so much detail, it's much clearer in my head now.

To do IB well, you need to be an academic all-rounder in my view and to thrive on independent and organised learning. DS's school do both IB and A levels and as he is academically bright we thought he would do IB, but as we got closer it became clear he did not want to continue with a foreign language and that he preferred the history options offered by A levels (his favourite subject). For him, there seemed to be little advantage in the extra work of IB and yes the perceived higher demands for IB uni entrance offers.

But if you really like the school, you have a lot of years before making a final decision and could go elsewhere after yr 11. Lots of DS's (private)school go to the local excellent college for A levels as they want the independence and parents are keen to escape the fees!

Could I suggest you talk to IB students and recent leavers who did IB? Talk also to large companies with management training programmes. With tertiary fees rising their is good reason to look at other options to Uni after your DS (or anyone's child, for that matter) leaves school.

I have been teaching the IB diploma for over 10 years. My daughter is currently doing the Primary years programme.

I believe it is the best pre university programme as it combines breadth and depth. The Extended Essay (a 4000 word piece of personal research on a subject chosen by the student) is an excellent preparation for university, this is something I have heard from former students. Theory of Knowledge really gets students to think about what they are learning and Creativity, Action and Service helps develop the non academic side of the student.

I disagree with those who say you need to be a good all rounder. You need to select your subjects carefully. If you are bad at Maths then Maths Studies is an ideal course, it does not go much beyond GCSE Maths but gives an excellent grounding in Statistics. In languages ab initio is ideal if you haven't studied a language before. A good school will offer a wide range all subjects allowing you to choose. Pick your strongest subjects at HL.

There are 6 subjects each worth 7 points and then 3 bonus points from TOK and EE. To pass you need 24 points so if you get a couple of 6s then you can get 1 or 2 in other subjects and it balances out.

I have seen plenty of average students pass and get into good universities.

More great points. Thanks for the perspective from a teacher Marcopront that's very useful.

marcopront a weaker mathematician or linguist might do fine at the IB. However all students wanting to do more than pass have to be strong enough at English to achieve reasonable marks and standard level.
That could be a problem for a mathematician or scientist aiming at courses which require 37+ points. I don't really see much point in doing the IB (if there is a choice) unless the student is going to enjoy studying most of the 6 choices and is relatively strong in English.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/expateducation/8076313/The-International-Baccalaureate-versus-A-levels-which-one-will-help-your-child-shine.html

Don't forget every subject has at least 20% Internal Assessment which is done before hand and can be drafted and redrafted. With a reasonable amount of work getting a 3 is achievable in all subjects for an average student. So with a good EE and TOK giving 2 bonus points 37 becomes achievable.

In my current school with a non selective cohort of about 50 each year we have an average of, I think, about 36 each year. I have been there 4 years in Maths, which is my subject, we have had one 1 in Maths Studies from a student who did no work and hardly wrote any answers on the paper and I think two 2s in Studies and one 2 in Standard level. So looking at 200 students we have had maybe 4 students scoring less than 3 and probably 90+ with a 6 or 7.

I will say however if a student knows they want to do science at university IB may not be the best option.
For Maths I am not so sure. I will try and remember to come back and let you know how my on track for a 7 in HL Maths and 42+ overall student gets on with his Oxford application for Maths and Computer Science.

A former student who got 45 points and did Further Maths for fun got into Harvard to do computer science.