Am I wrong to P'd off with ds's teacher?

[whoopsfallenoveragain]

Ds has been having problems with not going to the toilet at school but yesterday he went all day without having an accident and was given a headteacher award for it. I told him he could wear it today but I would tell his teacher to take it away if he had an accident today. I told his teacher this and she replied that they wouldn't take it away just as they wouldn't give a sad face for an accident. But as I have told him that it will be taken away but it now won't he will think that it will be ok to do so (we have been seeing a behavioural nurse who has told us we really must follow through with the threats)
Also he got upset at school about going to the after school club yet when I picked him up & told him that I had an interview and that he wouldn't have to go to that he got upset that he wouldn't go.

Hope this makes sense but I had to rant somewhere!!

I'm certainly no expert but i really wouldn't have thought that taking it away was the the way to go. BTW i think his teacher sounds lovely - just the sort i'd want my ds to have if he was having problems.

I wouldn't have threatened to take the award away either. He needs praise for his achievements not punishment for an accident. This doesn't count as bad behaviour imo.

FWIW, I really disagree with taking away rewards once they have been achieved for a specific thing.

A Headteacher's award is a big deal, and it is fantastic that the school recognised how well your DS did by not having an accident yesterday.

He should be really proud of himself.

IMO it would be a huge blow to his confidence and self-esteem to take away something that was given in recognition of this achievement.

The school gave the award, so as a parent I wouldn't intervene and suggest it should be removed.

I can understand the behavioural nurse advising you to follow through 'threats' with regard to instating consistent boundaries for behaviour, but are these toilet accidents deliberate, and do you regard them as bad behaviour?

And if so, have you been advised to punish your DS for them? (Removal of award constitutes punishment IMO)

Just interested in how this behaviour is perceived by the behavioural nurse, by the school, and by yourself, as it would obviously be helpful to your DS if you all had a consistent approach.

Sorry, Whoops, but I agree with the school on this one.

I can see that you're p'd off with the teacher, as you expected the school to support your decision re the award, but I can see why they didn't, and I think they made the right decision on this occasion TBH.

I don't think it's for you to dictate how the school's rewards system should work, any more than they should tell you how to discipline your child. If you are concerned that there is inconsistency, go and talk to the teacher and see if you can agree a common approach.

I can see your point on following through with threats, but surely the answer is not to make any more threats that you can't follow through.

I would agree with the school as well. The award is a recognition of what he achieved. You cannot undo the achievement, so you shouldn't take the award away. I would offer a bigger reward if he manages to go, say, a whole week with no accidents- then he learns that good things happen when you do well, not bad things happening for doing badly- much better for his self-esteem.

Surely the award was for yesterday. Why would you take away yesterday's award for something he did today?

I don't agree with taking his award away. He earned it by going through the day without having an accident, it's something he should be proud if, and in my opinion it would be mean and unecessarily negative to take it away from him.

It would be like getting a head teacher's award for getting all his sums right, and then insisting it was taken away the next time he got a sum wrong. Not managing to do it on another day doesn't negate his achievement.

I generally agree that if you make a threat you should follow it through ... but the threat has to be a reasonable one, and I'm really sorry but I don't think this one was.

hi i agree with the others. Your child earned the award yesterday and today is another day.

as a mum and teacher, it is becoming first nature to me to reward the positive rather than resort to sanctions. i try to achieve this even when i'm in a negative frame of mind, but it doesnt always work!

my dh, on the other hand, despite being very loving, has had to work harder to understand the psychology of discipline- as far as staying positive goes. eg he's more inclined to say 'don't do that' rather than ' please sit nicely'

i dont wish to sound smug, as i do not have all the answers at all, but it sounds like you may have to 'learn' or remind yourself to be POSITIVE, POSITIVE, POSITIVE with your ds, even when things are stressful for you.

i'm realising that this post may sound a bit vague, but if you try adopt an approach of praise and positivity in all areas of parenting, it wouldnt even occur to you to take the reward away

good luck with staying dry!

Thank you - I can now see I was wrong but things have been so hard the last few weeks it has been difficult to find ways to encourage him to not poo himself.
part of it was that the teacher wasn't going to back me up because of what we had been told by the nurse which was my fault because I hadn't always been backing up my threats due to feeling guilty.

It really sounds like you've been having a tough time, Whoops. Perhaps you can see your ds's dry day is a sign things are looking up?

As for the being consistent with the threats thing -you are right it is very important to follow through. BUT it is equally as important to be consistent with the rewards too. In the same way as making an empty threat makes it meaningless to the child, offering a reward and then taking it back again make the reward worthless.

Your ds may end up thinking to himself 'well there's no point 'working' hard for a sticker because they'll only take it away again.

I guess you've already tried the star chart or pasta jar routes so ds can 'save up' his rewards and focus on the psoitive?

How old is he? Is he deliberately pooing? If he's not then he is doing nothing wrong. Why punish him?

He is 5 and we think he was deliberately pooing because he didn't like the after school club.
Also he doesn't always like to leave the activities he is doing so would rather mess himself than go to the toilet

I am glad you have had so much good advice and you have taken it on board.

As for the messing himself, does he do it a particular time of day...i mean is it regular? if so could the school teacher not take him to the toilet at the right time and tell him he cannot return to class until he has been?

Alternativly when he does have an accident remove him from the class for a short period.
i know its not a longterm solution but if it
teaches him that he will miss more by not going when he needs to maybe he will be more inclined to get to the tolet in time?

hope you find the solution soon, it osunds like your really stressed over it all.

We had star charts for my kids with a picture of what they would achieve at the bottom. Once they had earned the 'prize' they knew that it would be taken away for a specified time if they repeated the incorrect behaviour.

So I would probably have given him the award to wear but say he must make sure he kept earning the 'right' to wear it by staying dry everyday. Does that make sense?

We tried star/sticker charts but it didn't seem to bother him whether he got anything or not

I hate to say it but peer pressure will probably be what wins the day.

As he makes friends who use the loos normally your ds will start to want to be like them. I'm afraid that reception age children can be quite 'honest' with each other 'Poo! You smell! Why did you poo in your pants?' etc. I guess it would only take a comment or 2 like that before your ds starts to want to conform withhis new mates.

Your dh's suggestion of pull-ups on the other hand seems a little bit like trying to humiliate ds into conforming and would only give your ds the message that it's ok to poo in my pants because I've got nappies on.