How many teachers have been attacked / threatened by students?

[feelingunsupported]

I've been thinking about this a lot over the last few days in light of the sentencing for the murder of Mrs Maguire. I've namechanged for obvious reasons but am a regular - Reasties xmas threads mainly

In my small school this year so far

• teacher's arm jammed in a door. Student made to write a note of apology

-male staff member had to deflect a punch from student. Staff member interviewed by manager for use of force. No comeback on student -student threatened to nut a teacher. Approached teacher looking like he was going to do it. Student suspended for 2 days then back into class -teachers told to fuck off / called cunts etc regularly

When really serious incidents happen like the attack on Ann Maguire, they clearly do involve the police. (Obviously.) Therefore they absolutely should when any other crime, or apparent crime happens too. Otherwise a school is saying a crime on their premises, like indecent assault, ABH, threat to kill etc. isn't a crime unless they say so, and thereby taking away the victim's right to redress.

That can't go on and it's appalling that teachers are cowed into not reporting for fear of their jobs or their life being made not worth living.

I think there needs to be a big fuss made about this, a news campaign and major whistleblowing (maybe teachers who are planning to leave the profession anyway could be the ones to do it). I predict it will happen too.

Absolutely -a big fuss yes

I have read the thread and have been shocked but not surprised. My dh has told me of things that have happened over the years and I am glad that he has not had any direct experience of this.

I have looked on the Downing Street epetitions site and couldn't see anything that was completely relevant. There was one about funding EBD units but I feel that it is more about management, ofsted, unions, parents and changing the away it is dealt with as well as funding for the units. I am not great at phrasing stuff but I would sign and encourage others to be aware of this and sign too. Is anyone eloquent with words willing?

Trouble is, Captain, in order for teachers to exercise their right to work free of harrassment, they will have to (further) alienate parents by e.g. refusing to take certain classes etc. How many times on this thread have we read of teachers being forced (just as Ann Maguire was) to continue to teach the students who abuse and attack them. What's the alternative? Walk out of the classroom? Absolutely impossible. Exclusion is a last resort, for reasons that have been outlined by pp. Call the police every time a student kicks or spits at you? Really? Imagine the headlines in the Daily Mail, and the outrage at the expense to the tax payer because bloody wet and weedy teachers can't keep order and discipline in their classrooms - sack 'em all!

There are huge vested interests in leaving teachers to bear the brunt of this problem and for everyone else (parents, Ofsted, politicians) to pretend it isn't happening.

Teachers tolerate, tolerate, tolerate, until they snap and walk away, with devastating consequences for themselves and their families (and the children who lose so many good teachers, of course).

Until parents learn to support schools and teachers - really support, not just pay lip service until the school does something outrageous like ask for money for a trip, or enforce school rules, or seek to minimise unauthorised absence , nothing will change.

Parents who bitch and moan about schools and teachers are part of the problem. A big part.

^There are huge vested interests in leaving teachers to bear the brunt of this problem and for everyone else (parents, Ofsted, politicians) to pretend it isn't happening.

Teachers tolerate, tolerate, tolerate, until they snap and walk away, with devastating consequences for themselves and their families (and the children who lose so many good teachers, of course).^

^ exactly this ^

I have worked in two schools recently (supply) where there is a resident police officer (not PCO - regular police officer).
Initially I was surprised - had no idea that was a thing.
But both those schools - in tough areas, had very good behaviour, politeness of students. I was told by a member of staff that many DC there have brothers or parents in jail, and that it was essential to 'break the cycle', and that seeing law-abiding behaviour as the norm and the police as benign and positive was essential to that.

I suppose it should be up to the teacher, as it is for anyone in a normal situation, to decide if what's being done to them warrants calling the police. They may decide an insult or spitting doesn't, but some of the things described on this thread - e.g. throwing a chair at you, child coming at you with a knife - would. I can't see the DM claiming the teacher would be in the wrong in that case.

It sounds as if the kids who do this know they won't get into trouble and laugh about what they can do to teachers. If they knew their behaviour was as policeable as it is outside school, they'd know that violence would result in a police situation.

The police on site sounds like a successful idea.

But a second issue is management suppressing this and preventing calls to the police for the sake of the school's image. That's what needs to be made public IMO. Whatever system it is that forces management to hide these issues and teachers to pay the price, can be fixed if there's a will.

Separating exclusion stats / police involvement from how a school's success is rated is one way.

Don't forget Captain that quite a few of these assaults are committed by children under the age of criminal responsibility.

Yes that's true but it sounds as if the worst assaults are generally the oder ones.

With younger ones I guess it should be ed psych and support in place asap to help them not turn into the older ones.

I appreciate that we might be working on the basis of a skewed sample here, but has anyone else noticed how frequently these attacks are aimed at pregnant women? This has happened to two of my colleagues (I won't describe the assaults in detail as I have asked their permission). I expect a passing child psychologist could find something interesting in that, sadly.

Lizzie - interesting!

Now you mention it Lizzie I met a woman at a support group who was devastated because her daughter had declared her intention to kill a teacher's baby by stabbing her in the abdomen. The mother was beside herself and those of us there just felt our problems pale into significance.

Lizzie and Larry, I would be interested to hear if there is a unique connection to violence against pregnant [teachers], but my only theory so far is simply that the bullying is proportional to the "weakness" of the recipient.

My DP (6'3", built like a brick shithouse albeit with a beer annex , white, English, local accent) worked at the same school at which I'd been assaulted (and the pregnant colleague threatened), and - though he left that school is still in teaching. I just told him about this thread and asked him what's the worst thing that happened to him, and he said "I've been threatened." I waited for more. He said "I'm 6'3..."

I'm not saying that's a perfect formula, btw. There's a lot of reasons.

I hasten to add that I don't mean unwillingness to fight one's own corner, mental weakness or etc, just the bully's perception of weakness in his/her target.

I agree Marina, it could be the assailant's perception that a pregnant woman is most vulnerable.

On a personal note, I've been verbally threatened, and had threats made against my children. I've only been physically hurt whilst trying to prevent students from beating each other to a pulp. Not at my current school, fortunately, which is like a breath of fresh air in terms of behaviour.

The worst thing I've experienced personally, was whilst training to be a teacher in a naice grammar school much beloved of MN. During my class a Year 11 boy was openly and IMO "aggressively" masturbating ( with a female student next to him). Obviously I threw him out of class. The Head tried at first to convince me that I was mistaken, but it was corroborated by other students.

Parents were called in, educated people, accompanied by the family Pastor, and their view was that their son had "urges", and it was unhealthy for me to ask him to repress them, i.e. Not to wank in class. No further action was taken against the student, despite my vociferous protests. My placement finished shortly afterwards but I really worried about he might become, and what the girls in the class would have to put up with. I wish I'd done more.

Coolas spot on. When our deputy head was assaulted by a pupil the head told him that if he involved the police he'd make sure he didn't get a headship anywhere else. Interestingly while the matter was being dealt with I was teaching the boy's class and one of his classmates predicted he wouldn't even be excluded as his mother would threaten to go to the papers and the head would cave in. She was right.

this thread - terrible, Ive experienced things but the last couple of posts have utterly disgusted me in terms of the content re pupil behaviour.

I keep coming back to this thread absolutely wide-eyed with shock.

I absolutely can't believe what you all have endured from teaching.

It's so sad. It's clear many of you went into the field because you enjoyed children, loved learning and wanted to make a difference. Chances are you had a teacher/teachers who made a difference in your lives, and you wanted to be that person to a student. And then these children do these horrible things to you, and not only are they not punished, you're told you're not good enough to hack it!

I'm utterly shocked. If there ever is a petition on MN, even though I'm not in the UK, I'll be a vocal, active supporter. You all deserve so much better

There is a pattern to a lot of this. Male pupils abusing female teachers, whose complaints are ignored or surpressed by male SLT.

I've often noticed the 'chumminess' between male staff and male pupils who have been referred to them following misbehaviour in classes led by female teachers. A bit of 'Oh, Miss soandso getting her knickers in a twist again'.

I would agree with that Herman. In one of my cases a girl hurt me but in both cases it was minimised by the men in charge.

When our deputy head was assaulted by a pupil the head told him that if he involved the police he'd make sure he didn't get a headship anywhere else.

Surely this is illegal - it's blackmail. People need to be getting this kind of thing on tape and making a huge stink.

What happens when traffic wardens and GPs etc are assaulted? If they can involve the police then teachers should be able to. (If child is old enough)

I'm not excusing the kids but if a culture has developed where no matter what they do (almost), the head will ensure the police aren't involved, and they know that, then the violence is effectively legitimised to become a culture too.

Nobody knows what goes on in schools, Captain.

The culture of fear is unbelievable.

As someone mentioned upthread, the system of teaching appointments is wholly corrupt. You have to be 'one of us' to get on. Rocking the boat is not tolerated. Yeah, by all means blow your whistle, but you'll never teach again, kind of thing.

Primary teacher. I've been shot at with a pellet gun when leaving the building, several times had to dodge punches, kicks and bites. Had chairs flung at me. Stabbed in the hand with a pencil, lead broke off in my hand. Most of this happened when I worked in a "good" private school. The problem being the ineffectual SMT. Won't admit the problem as then not keeping their nice reputation. Much easier to blame teachers and TAs.
Behaviour was much better when I worked in an inner city school from the most deprived area around here. The difference being the whole school worked on things together and behaviour incidents dealt with properly. You were never made to feel it was the teacher's fault. The school shut down though because although we did our best our results were not deemed good enough. It shouldn't all be about results.

Won't admit the problem as then not keeping their nice reputation.

This is basically the root of the whole problem - a result of introducing a 'market' system in education. Image is everything - the reality of what goes on in schools must be suppressed at all costs.

A lot of Ofsted outstanding schools are actually shit, but no one dares point it out. We've got the Emperor's New School System in this country, and it stinks.