Going private at 7 (yr 3) vs secondary (age 11)

[perrinelli]

Just wondered if anyone can help us think through whether it would be better to send dd to the junior school of the secondary private school we like or wait til 11.
Pros for sending her now:

• takes away uncertainty of getting in at 11
• small classes
• concern about local junior school mixed yr groups
• lovely ethos
• opportunity to try more sport, languages, music
• feel more confident she'll be stretched
• would be more similar to her peers socially
• wouldn't have to change schools/peer groups again

Pros for waiting to 11

• be able to walk
• be on same site as younger dd
• less stressful school run (may have a newborn too)
• socially less awkward for me
• save a load of money
• wouldn't have the concern/pressure about future fees
• would leave options more open at 11 (local comp is v well thought of)
• could be a less pressured environment
• could supplement with out of school stuff
• local juniors is thought of as 'ok'

There's a lot to think about!
Anyone done one or the other and regretted it?
Junior school pupils progressing to the senior school get preference and so there is very tough competition for the remaining places at 11.

I'm also quite scarred from the experience of going to a private school at 11 from the local primary and found it really hard to adjust.

Money wise if my husband is in work fees would be ok but his kind of job can be quite unstable. Back up plan would be remortgaging or downsizing.

We have 1, possibly 2 more to consider and would want to do the same for all.
Would appreciate any insights!

Sorry - 1 or 2 more dc to consider

Hi

I could have writen your list last year.
Is she happy where she is?

We made the move from state to Independant at the start of Y3 this Sep. It was an easy decision in the end because DD was increasingly unhappy and having social problems in her v. small school and mixed year groups.
Think we would have had a harder time moving her if she had been happy at her old shool. So far she loves her new school as has settled in amazingly well.

Hmm that's the thing - she has to move anyway.
She's at the infant school in the next town (we moved house and couldn't get her into the village infant school yr 1).
All her friends will be going to the linked junior school there but that's not an option because of distance & younger sibling starting at the local infants. The plan was for her to move to the village juniors down the road and her sister starts at the village infants right next door.
I think you're right that if she was at an all through primary and settled then we would be more likely to leave it.

I think if you are thinking about having 3 or 4 children its makes sense for them to go to a local junior school.As a mother of 4kids I have sent mine locally to a good state primary.The advantages are easy access,good social networks and access to after school sports and ballet/drama/orchestra/martial arts etc.
I am now planning to educate them privately at secondary level.My children have learned to survive in large competitive classes and had exposure to lots of different sports and got used to working with kids who have learning difficulties and come from very different backgrounds.The only downside is perhaps they haven't always been pushed the the best of their abilities academically ( but that can be easily overcome at home).

Thanks, that's a good point.
Have/will your kids get any stick for going onto a private secondary instead of the state secondary like the majority?

I'm v early on pregnant with dc3. If this one sticks by the time dd is year 6 id have one in year 6, one in year 3 and one in reception so they'll be quite spread out.

Sorry forgot another pro/con:

State junior has better wrap around care than the private juniors which would be helpful for work
and;
Sticking with state for longer would put less pressure on me to get back to work so I could potentially be around more.

Sounds like the state junior/infants is your best fit at the moment.

Plenty of people move children into the private sector at 11. Most schools will have a new intake from lots of schools at that age. I know someone who did just that. They did get a tutor for the CE exam taken in the January of year of entry.
Think they then found it hard to keep him focussed for the rest of the last year and Y6 SATs because by the summer term he knew he was going to a differnt school and the SATs were irrelevant to him.

No absolutely no stick.Loads of kids go from state to private at 11.To be honest there are all sorts at my eldest's private school- not all are well off and in traditional occupations.Some are decorators and turn up in their overalls.
One final point once you place children in private education you have to keep them there.If you have a DH with an uncertain career you need to find time to build up a financial buffer in case the worse happens.We have saved up for years for this as 4 kids are so expensive.Use the time to expose your kids to lots of different activities.Mine do lots of team sports,athletics,kickboxing,dancing and ballet,cubs,orchestra and learn 2 instruments each.We have also ocasionally supplemented their school work with tuition when needed.

It's worth asking how many of the Y7 children are from the prep school and how many are from elsewhere. My DD's school is quite small and 50% were from their prep. For a long time the prep children didn't really mix with the others. To some degree many of them still don't.

Thanks for all the thoughts - in this case it's 1/3 from the junior school and they do mix them up across the forms apparently.
I know from my own experience though that those coming up together can stick together. Also can't get my head round how the level things out eg those from the linked junior school do 2 yrs of French before they arrive.

Most state primaries do some French now. And the amount of French in Primary (even at private schools) is relatively limited, and easily caught up by those motivated to do so.

The local Private secondaries do a lot to mix up all the pupils in year 7. In one school they put on a Pantomime, and parts go to pupils from all the feeder schools on merit.

stay at the primary, I moved my dd at 7 but in your circs would have kept here there.

And no regrets at all. I'm so glad we did. dd1 has been so happy in her primary, and the rite of passage part of going through with her class mates seems quite important to me.

Now she's in Y6, she still has the choice of several independents - though has only seen one she likes, so far - but in addition, the local state secondary that was a sink school when she started primary is now very good, and a strong contender!

She is far more resilient now, can deal with a lot of social situations with all sorts of different people, has her feet firmly on the ground but is doing well academically. As much luck as judgement on our part, but I'm so relieved we didn't move her (plus she'd never have forgiven us ).

That's us. Reading your list, I'd definitely vote for staying put too...but its a very individual choice, no rights or wrongs: good luck either way!

Oops, lost the first line - 'We chose to stay put till 11'

We moved one to private aged 7 and the other one moved to private aged 11. Both settled in well and were at boarding schools from age 11, one direct from the local primary school the other from her prep school. There is no best way other than what suits the child.

If there are few places left at the independent because most are taken by those in the feeder prep, then will you actually get one at 11? We have a school similar to that near me and they are highly selective in year 7 and do not accept all their prep children if they are not up to standard! Much to the annoyance of the parents but league tables are king these days.

You don't really sound as though you can afford 3/4 children in private education if you are thinking you may have to resort to remortgaging your house/downsizing and your DH is in an unstable job. You have looked into likely fees for 3/4 children presumably and these costs go up a lot - and there are extras for music, dance, drama, sport coaching, trips, etc. It is a lot to think about even at a fairly run of the mill private school. If it is not what you can do with reasonable financial plannig, I would not attempt it.

Thankyou for all your thoughts

It does sound as though waiting would be more sensible.

There would be a bit of a gamble though as to whether we'd get a place at 11 but maybe that's a risk worth taking.

It's so hard not to project your own experiences isn't it? I'm definitely affected by the v difficult experience I had adjusting to secondary school, the fact I think my 'coasting' and lack of self discipline was already ingrained by the time I reached private secondary from my village state primary. The experience of being the only one going from my primary to my secondary and knowing no one there when others had come up together from the junior school. I guess more than anything id like to protect dd from that.

In terms of affordability it's really hard to judge. Chances are DH will be in work and will be fine. If not, we are pretty much mortgage free and I think we could live comfortably in a house worth half as much as the one we're living in and the equity would cover fees. If it comes to it and we believe the fee paying school is the best place I think its worth 'sacrificing' our 'forever home'/dream house', it's only bricks and mortar really. (Not sure if DH would agree mind....)

But when I think of piling 2dds plus (hopefully!) a small baby into the car twice a day for school run to the private juniors as opposed to a 10 minute walk down the hill with a buggy...

I would stay at the state school but put what you would have paid in fees into an ISA every month so when (if) you make the move to private senior school you have a great buffer financially which may also make things easier for your other child(ren)

brilliant advice from homebythesea, and school run is so important, someone left my dcs' very prestigous prep school recently because their school run was so difficult (plus like you there were 2 more to educate and money was an issue0 - the little girl went to her local state and apparently is thriving and the whole family is much happier without the hassle

We did the move at Year 3.
It wasn't that the primary was awful....just a bit disappointing. Child was a top of his class, but only 2 others got L3s in Writing and actually, they have both left now, so I wouldn't really want DS to be the only one working at his level. I know teachers can differentiate the work but it is good to have others working at a similar level.

Where we are now is better. There are more working at a similar level and they are in sets of 12 for things like Maths. They use more traditional approaches in maths from early on which I like and are big on traditional comprehension exercises etc. There are also more opportunities to do different things, so for example they play rugby against other schools most weeks, swim in the school pool every week, have outdoor conservation lessons, a year of instrumental lessons in groups of 6 (1 term brass, 1 term strings, 1 term recorders) and do a lot of public speaking too.

For all that, it is not £4k a term better. But I knew it wouldn't be. However that is what it costs round here and we decided we could afford it with some sacrifices but are not driven into penury by it.....still have savings and can afford a couple of cheapest holidays a year......so we see it as our big luxury and enjoy seeing our boy thriving on the opportunities.

I'm pretty sure he would still have got in at 11 to the secondary. He is bright and although most places go to kids from preps many come for state too. So it is a costly exercise for us....and that is with one child!

I wasn't happy with the state primary and the thought of another 4 years of feeling disgruntled drove me to pay. If money had been a lot tighter, I would have just put up with it I guess, and I'm sure DS would have done well there, even if I had a rockier emotional journey through.

One Q to consider is if you can find a better state alternative. If you are prepared to wait a bit and go for an in year admissions place, you may well get one. Kids do move all the time and you might be a term into year 3, or so, but if you get your name down at 2 or 3 good ones (and are able to drive to them) then one will come up at some point.

If you are looking at 3 or 4 kids, the picture is quite different.

Definitely don't be motivated by French! The French they learn in any school before 11 all gets re-done later anyway - we wasted a whole load of money on French lessons from nursery onwards - DS1 got A8 because of the brill teaching in Y10-11, not because of what he learned before Y9
We moved DC1 for Y6, should have moved him in Y3 - hindsight - he was bored at the local primary.
DC2 remained at state primary till Y6 as indie changed the rules so DC could not move into Y6.
He is sports mad, and with hindsight we should have moved him in Y3...
However they are both happy.
We are lucky that for DC2, the indie has a policy of letting the DC take the exam in y5, so as he was offered a deferred place we had no angst in Y6.
Depends where you are of course, but in our neck of the woods the Y6 stress is horrendous (state primary where most DC go onto indie secondary as state secondary is dire).
(Just a caveat tho' - if job is precarious, and fees could cause worry, stay state - the stress would otherwise be counter-productive).