Verbal reasoning - disadvantage if not from English speaking home?

[catcheemonkey]

My DC recently did 11+ VR/NVR entrance exams at a super-selective state grammar school. Many of the parents waiting at the gate at pick-up time weren't native English speakers. It made me wonder whether their DCs would be at a disadvantage in Verbal Reasoning. Surely the VR test wouldn't be allowed if that was the case? But it's hard to see how they wouldn't be, and I couldn't find any online reassurance through a brief Google. Anyone know if research has been done on this?

HelloItsMeFell, my observation from mingling among parents, and using my ears as well as my eyes, was that the proportion of white-british families sitting the test was a lot lower than the 30% that makes up the school poulation. My instinct is to wonder why. There could be a number of reasons, or combination of reasons, some of which have been suggested here.

If I was a social science academic looking for a project, I'd be investigating. I would want to interview applicants and their parents about their motivations, and the preparation process, and see if there were trends in families from different backgrounds. However, as I'm a busy working mum I guess I'll have to hope someone else picks it up instead.

"If there are only 150 places at the school in question and 1700 dc sitting the test - 70% of whom are non-white British then the excessively competitive tutoring culture is obviously being driven up by the fierce competition WITHIN the non-white ethnic groups, ie competition against each other!"

Yes, Clavinova, that's what I'm thinking too. I suspect it's not least to do with the fact that many of the faith-school options aren't available to them, so their access to that elusive thing called "choice" is very limited.

RabbitStew: "I think you will find a fair proportion of the parents of children from White, British backgrounds are accessing tutoring to help their children get into the school"

Yes, but the ones I know just tutor once a week for a year in VR/NVR. They don't tutor "for years". Also, about 50% of the ones I know who have been offered a place have chosen other (private) schools instead, because for various reasons they have felt this school wasn't the right choice for their boys.

So, are you saying, then, catcheemonkey, that you personally know that most of the non-white British background parents putting their children in for these tests are tutoring every night for years, then? And that you believe the parents who only "tutored" once a week for year? Obviously, it's a matter of interpretation what constitutes "tutoring" and I'm sure these "once a week for a year" parents wouldn't count all the carefully selected books they bought for or read to their children, the discussions they had and the ideas they shared, the diaries they encouraged their children to write, the thank you letters to relatives, the trips to the libraries, theatres and museums, the "fun" maths they did with their children because they enjoyed it and school didn't seem to be doing quite enough with them, etc, etc., as tutoring, but if that's not advancing your children in areas of traditional interest to schools and of use in exams, I don't know what is. Is it only tutoring if it's boring, done to a fixed timetable, and you've told the child they have to do it in order to pass an exam?

"So, are you saying, then, catcheemonkey, that you personally know that ..."

Course not. I'm saying that's the impression that is being projected, and I'd be interested to know more about whether it's true or false. That's why people do research - to answer unknown questions. They form a hypothesis about something, and then they do analysis to test their hypothesis. If they're good at their job they remain objective about the potential outcomes.

My DD and her friend recently sat the 11+. I lost count of the number of times the friend's mum reminded me that her daughter was at a disadvantage as English was not their first language despite the fact her DD was born in the UK and was excelling in all subjects in a British school. I tried to gently remind her that the tricky vocab that is included in NVR tends not to be the kind of words that crop up during normal family conversations and that both our DDs would have to learn additional vocab that was not commonly known by an average 10 year old.

I've also had to smile and nod when told that Asians are better at maths and the scoring system is unfair as my August born DD would be given extra points whilst her September born DD would have points taken away.

FYI, both girls passed with really good scores, but my DD's friend's score was higher!

Oops, meant to say VR not NVR above!

Very polite of you to smile and nod, alphablock. I think I would have been tempted to tell her to her face that she was being racist, insecure and tiresomely competitive. But then my child isn't friends with her child.

Thanks rabbitstew. I think the 11+ brings out the worst in parents, so I've tried not to get too involved in the competitive nonsense. I've also heard parents of boys complaining that there is not enough Maths in the test and that's unfair as boys are more mathematical than girls. As a white female with a maths degree it drives me nuts that people can really believe mathematical ability is driven by race or gender!