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11+ London Independent Schools - advice please from anyone on top of it?

20 replies

aliciahammersmith · 20/10/2014 13:41

Would really appreciate some tips from parents who have successfully survived the 11+ for London independent schools. I am new to this and feel I've totally underestimated this process because DD's school gave me a false sense of security.

My daughter is in year 6 independent primary school, I have always been told that she is doing well and is a strong, lovely student. But suddenly she's fallen behind her classmates because I suspect they have been intensely coached and tutored and she has just been left behind.

I feel like I have let my daughter down. I know this is late and more experienced / switched on parents have been doing this for years. I am just shocked that she is suddenly so far behind where she needs to be, when she has always been bright and hard working.

I have noticed some gaps in her basic Maths and she also freezes up in English comprehension.

Has anyone else been in this situation? What can I do now to give my daughter the best chance? At this rate i don't think she will get any offers and really its my fault because she is a bright girl!

OP posts:
FlyingFortress · 20/10/2014 14:05

Which schools are you aiming for, and when are the exams? Is she on half term now?

What information do you have on her current performance? Has she been doing past papers under exam conditions?

kensingtongirl · 20/10/2014 15:05

Do not panic! It is never too late to turn things around, especially if you think her peers are progressing more rapidly due to extra help. Private tutoring can be costly but it can also give you the peace of mind you are looking for, especially if your daughter has been doing well throughout school thus far. Whatever you do, try not to rub your anxiety off on her or she will "freeze up" even more. Wishing you the best of luck.

aliciahammersmith · 20/10/2014 15:10

Her first choice is Godolphin and Latymer. She is also applying for Notting Hill, Francis Holland, Latymer Upper, South Hampstead and Queen's Gate.

She did a timed practise of a past exam this weekend and it revealed that her core Maths was much weaker than I thought (though she's been getting good grades in school reports), and she froze on the English and said that she just didn't understand the text! Composition was fine but I have no idea what the standard is.

I know part of it is confidence and exam technique but some of her core skills were weak. She is the only girl in her class who is applying to these schools and I just don't think that she has been prepped for difficult and competitive they are.

Looking on other forums it seems people sort these issues out in the summer before year 6 but do you have any tips for starting out now?

Have you got any experience of getting into these schools, and what standard should a student be at at this stage?

OP posts:
ohtobeanonymous · 20/10/2014 15:59

Would suggest that G&L and SHS were the most selective of this set of schools, for which she would need to be a solid level 5 in core subjects at least.

It would definitely be worth finding a good tutor to address any core weakness in maths and English, if only for the confidence this will give her. Not sure if they include any VR or NVR testing in their entrance procedures, but familiarity with the style of questions and practise approaching and interpreting these would be a good idea (does she already do these at her prep school?)
There are some great websites available for maths (carol vorderman, Kahn academy) if a tutor is not affordable - she could work through topics on these. Knowing times tables inside out is also very handy. Her school may also be able to suggest some useful websites (BBC Bitesize can be good for revision/introduction of key concepts in certain subjects at certain stages)

A little bit of study and prep often (and hopefully in a fun way) might do the trick. No point worrying, but if she and you are keen on sitting the exams for these schools, it will help her confidence to be prepared.
All the best to her!

ZeroSomeGameThingy · 20/10/2014 17:18

OP You say in your first post that your DD has fallen behind her classmates.

In your second post you say she is the only girl in her class who is applying to these schools.

Which schools are the rest of her class applying to? Or are they expecting to stay in the senior part of the junior school?

aliciahammersmith · 20/10/2014 17:30

Her classmates are mainly applying to less competitive secondary schools, closer to her prep school (it doesn't have a secondary school). She is in a small class and no one else in her year is taking the consortium exams.

She has certainly fallen behind her classmates and on top of that the standard that she needs to meet is higher - it's a double whammy!

OP posts:
aliciahammersmith · 20/10/2014 17:35

At this stage I am definitely considering tutoring even though her teachers have told me that it is not necessary, which is absolutely frustrating because more of the same isn't going to do!

Do you have any tips for making sure I get the best tutor for her, companies I should look at or avoid, questions I should definitely ask? It just seems totally unregulated and the choice is overwhelming

OP posts:
FlyingFortress · 20/10/2014 17:42

What resources do you have open to you between now and January? Do you have a tutor already? Is she booked onto any half term or Christmas revision courses?

If she is bright, but just under-prepared, that should be fixable, but it will require a fair amount of input from somebody to systematically identify gaps and plug them, go over technique (How do you approach the "impossible" comprehension passage). In my experience that person is usually the parent, possibly using a tutor to "teach", but directing what the weak points are. As a good starting place, Bond do a "How to do 11+" in each subject, and in there are some tests which will help identify areas of weakness. Some tuition centres will be running mocks for the independent schools, so it is worth getting onto one of these where she can also see how she is performing against a cohort of girls taking the same tests.

If she is the only girl sitting the Consortium test then I wouldn't expect the school to put in much specific effort I'm afraid.

MarriedDadOneSonOneDaughter · 21/10/2014 05:38

  1. You have not let your daughter down. Don't feel guilty. She will do well wherever she goes.
  1. Don't stress about it as she might pick up on that.
  1. Start with things she enjoys, keep it simple and work up from there (esp. comprehension).
  1. Don't pressure cook with training for the exam, it's counter-productive and ultimately if the super-selective schools aren't for her you shouldn't consider it a "failure" - it might be better to be top of the class of a more modestly academic school than bottom of the class where less than A* is a "failure"
  1. Do lot's of reading at home, talk about everything, always answer questions fully and as if she is "adult", go to performances (theatre etc) especially ones you might not usually consider, go to public lectures, museum tours, etc, etc, etc
  1. Don't get caught up in the school gates chatter and hype. What people are doing with their children is not useful, helpful or important information for you or your child. Ignore it at all costs and relax (Wine)

From personal experience, the English, Maths and the rest "is what it is", probably plenty good enough for at least a couple of the schools and the real value add of a tutor is getting the maximum points onto the page in exam conditions. She will have enough "points" in her head, but might not know how to get it on the page, i.e. exam technique. We did an hour a week for the 10 weeks before the exam.

Again, from personal experience, google Emily-Jane Swanson ......

Needmoresleep · 21/10/2014 08:03

I agree with Married Dad. When my daughter was this age the Prep school advised us that our daughter did not have a cat in hells chance of getting into any of our preferred secondaries including a couple on your list. From some limited research we were also very late in the game to find a good tutor.

The solution was to work through Galore Parks 'so you really want to learn...' These are text books often used by independent schools but also designed for home study. English was DDs problem so we got her to plan and write essays and did some of the class activities in the car or round the dinner table.

We also managed to get hold of some past Independent school exam papers and have her do these over Christmas. I marked the maths together which highlighted where her problems were and we focussed on these areas. (DS' teacher kindly supplied lots of suitable geometry questions.)

But most of all try not to worry. She will do best if she is prepared not panicked. Independent schools are looking for potential. They will be trying to spot the over-tutored, over anxious child. Children come in from all sorts of educational backgrounds so it wont be simply a case of who scores best.

I would also encourage her to be happy about any of the schools on the list. The places offered can be pretty random. You only need one place.

Oddly we found the process quite fun. DD didnt seem to mind doing an essay or comprehension first thing on a Saturday morning for an hour before going out. The exams were pizza for lunch afterwards and the afternoon off. She got two of the five she sat and two wait lists. Once in she continued to thrive, ending up towards the top of the year. Whilst some of the all-singing all-dancing 11 year olds who had been top table through their primary years faded significantly.

Having said all that, it is worth having a plan B. Not knowing your child, but a couple of the schools mentioned are not that selective, so you should be OK. Can she stay where she is until Yr8, or find a similar school where she could? It is very very rare that kids get nothing but good to know tgere is something.

Also speak to the school and to individual teachers. My DD ended up getting extra English at lunchtimes to help plug the gaps. The school report is important so worth them thinking about what they say, plus you want them to be proactive if she lands on a wait list. Their job is to get your daughter to the next stage.

Good luck.

aliciahammersmith · 21/10/2014 11:22

Thank you all for this incredibly useful advice. I have just bought the Galore Park textbook series and will try to work through them with DD over the next months. Needmoresleep I will definitely be trying to emulate your low-stress approach to exams - this is just the beginning and I don't want to create any lasting trauma!

OP posts:
itsmecathy123 · 21/10/2014 11:36

My daughter took the 11+ two years ago, the whole process is much easier the second time around (I'm doing it all over now for DD2)!

I think that using very targeted textbooks at home is a good foundation, and you have already spotted some holes in your daughter's core skills. But, the standard of candidates is so high and competition is pretty fierce, especially for the schools you mentioned and you do have to put in the extra work if DD's school is not geared towards these exams.

I would certainly recommend a Christmas revision course, based on experience with DD1. Am sending DD2 to Aspire Academics revision course in West London this December. I think there are a few on offer but I was impressed by their course breakdown and they will give me a detailed report to plan DD2's revision for the remaining weeks. Little touches, like the woman I spoke to asked me what DD2's favourite genre of book is, so that they can create personalised resources for her..!

Both the tutors went to Godolphin so you may want to give them a call for any insider tips! But shop around, where in London are you based?

Nicename · 21/10/2014 11:47

OK so you are in half term now (?). A neighbours little girl went for the same schools and did very well (accepted for all). She used the good old Bond papers and I have found the kids enjoy the Bond Online (you can do a month by month rolling sub for about £6 pcm).

Focus on the maths, English and verbal/non verbal. Try to get some past papers form the schools.

If you can find any places that do 'dummy run' tests, then it wont be so daunting. Some tutor agencies offer this (Holland Park tutors for one).

Try to get a hold of reading lists for the target schools and get her to read as many different types of books as possible - and find what she loves (good to talk about them). Do a dummy CV for her - what she likes, achievements at/outside school, books she enjoys, what she wants to do for a career, etc. These are good for any interviews

She hasn't fallen behind - and you haven't let her down!

ohtobeanonymous · 21/10/2014 18:29

Have just looked it up online and the Aspire Academics course costs over £500 for three days and is taking place when most schools are still in session before Christmas break Shock
Don't suppose there are any affordable ones around which take place when my child and the other underprivileged will actually be on holidays??
Looks like it is websites and Bond books for DD!!

Poisonwoodlife · 22/10/2014 07:59

Aliciahammersmith excellent advice from Needmore. Having gone through this twice, once from a school that didn't prepare my DD and once from one that diid, my first, second and third bits of advice are; relax, don't allow the competitiveness and anxiety in the playground and beyond, often fuelled by Chinese whispers about what is required to get through the exams, which rarely arise from actual knowledge of what is required, to affect you and your DD, and relax. After the results came in for both my DDs cohorts it was clear that the schools know the qualities that enable a girl to succeed in their schools and irrespective of years of tutoring the girls got to the schools that suited their personalities and level of ability.

Also completely ignore the mindset that this is a first past the line race, based on attainment. It is one the tutors encourage because it is in their interests for panicked parents to think their DDs need preparing like prize racehorses. It was all the more frustrating when DD2 was prepared just in that way as a result of parental pressure at her Prep, it had little to do with educating, stimulating and challenging my DD intellectually. By January many were in a state of burn out (especially those with tutors on top), all enthusiasm squashed and it was all I could do to keep my DDs enthusiasm for intellectual challenge intact and her feet on the ground, and encourage her to feel that she should just go in there to show them who she was and what she could do. If they did not offer a place it was because it wasn't the right school for her, and there were plenty of other good schools. As it happened, though she was not particularly strong in tests of attainment at the Prep and regarded by them as average, my DD was offered places at all her choices including the one comparable to G&L her school thought was aspirational. This was much to the puzzlement of parents of girls who had been tutored and prepped and had been outperforming her in prep school exams who were not offered places, or put on the waiting list. She was actually above average once she got there and faced more challenging work.

If it were a first past the post race the schools would set straight forward tests of Maths and English based on the curriculum, no need for interviews, school reports, questions that explore different dimensions of ability. For G&L for instance if you look at the consortium papers there are questions on the maths paper that are more about applying what they know laterally, applying logic, those questions can keep parents thinking for days including a management consultant with an MBA and 2 maths graduates but it was fun Blush but I suspect they learn a lot about the students from the way they approach those questions and their workings, regardless of whether they get the right answer. No amount of tutoring will prepare a student for them as they deliberately make them unpredictable The selection process is designed to explore your daughters ability and personality, as needmore says they want the brightest and best suited, not the most tutored. In fact the exams for the least selective schools are the most straightforward but they offer to a broader band. In all the schools once there you will find great diversity in terms of strengths and weaknesses. I have one DD who was top Maths set but threw a wobbly at writing a piece of creative writing and one who was bottom Maths set but loves to write, and is full of ideas about the books she reads (and still managed an A*in Maths at GCSE)

Another bit of evidence that supports the schools expertise in recruiting according to raw ability is that most end up supporting around 10% of their pupils to a diagnosis of Specific Learning Difficulties of one kind and another. They clearly can distinguish between shortcomings in attainment and accuracy, and ability. Freezing up in an English Comprehension would of course be a common issue for a pupil with a specific learning difficulty, and it might be worth exploring whether it is confidence and skills or a more fundamental issue with speed of reading, processing, and organising her ideas. Both my DDs are Dyslexic.

That said it is good to have them feel confident of their basics when they go in the exam room. With my older DD coming from a state school environment, so they had not even covered the full syllabus, I worked through a set of Maths workbooks that covered the curriculum keeping one step ahead in derusting my Maths but devised some questions that applied the concepts in unfamiliar ways. Whatever she struggled with we went back to basics and practised. We also did some logic puzzle books which she really enjoyed. For English we got a tutor because it wasn't so black and white in terms of a correct answers, and my DD isn't one to accept shades of grey from me after all I only have a related degree, what do I know but she was a teacher she had loved and it was a cosy session with orange juice and biscuits once a week for a term. She also helped her with exam technique. None of this started before September.

Couldn't agree more about reading widely and discussing with them what they read, not just because of the exams, I am proud my Scientist still devours fiction. Grin

For various reasons my DD1 was interviewed separately by the Head of one of the most selective schools, the one on a par with G&L. After she commented that "we probably learn the most from interview" and that in terms of overall accuracy and knowledge of the curriculum they set the bar fairly low with the intention of consolidating in Year 7 for those who come from schools who do not prepare. But they are looking for evidence that they have the qualities to best succeed at the school. It is potential they are looking for.

I hope this helps and reassures. Above all remember that in West London we live in a ridiculous bubble where these schools get differentiated on the smallest and most tenuous of factors. They really are all good schools and enable bright pupils to achieve their potential and get to the best universities. Schools like G&L get the results because they are more selective, but it should be about what schools feel right for your DD, that indefinable ethos and the culture of the girls, as much as facilities and exam results, it may be that they will be happiest and best achieve their individual potential at a less selective school.

ohtobeanonymous · 22/10/2014 10:46

Poison - absolutely wonderful and reassuring post from someone who has 'been there, done that'
Thank you! Flowers

EssexYumMum · 31/05/2015 01:47

Any update on your daughter's application, OP? I hope she got accepted at a school you and her are delighted with.

EssexYumMum · 31/05/2015 01:49

Any update on your daughter's application, OP? I hope she got accepted at a school you and her are delighted with.

EssexYumMum · 31/05/2015 01:52

Any update on your daughter's application, OP? I hope she got accepted at a school you and her are delighted with.

EssexYumMum · 31/05/2015 01:53

Any update on your daughter's application, OP? I hope she got accepted at a school you and her are delighted with.

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