August born boy, dyslexic and opportunity to move him back a year.

[3boybubble]

My son has a very late August birthday, he has struggled through school from day one, and it was always blamed on him being very young for the year. Just recently, he was diagnosed (privately) as having mild-moderate dyslexia. His current school have been reluctant to acknowledge this diagnosis, and are dragging their heels a little over extra help in school. We have looked at taking him out and putting him into a private school, where it was suggested that he could go back a year (as his birthday was so close to the cut off). I fought and fought for him to be held back when he was due to start primary, so I was really pleased when this was proposed as an option. However... it could cause some issues further down the line. For example, when it comes to secondary school, the issue of the 11+ exam and being out of year group. KCC told me in a conversation on the phone that they are happy for children up or down a year to sit the Kent test. But when I sent an email to have this confirmed in writing there was a certain amount of back-pedalling and it makes me worried that we would have a fight on our hands when the time comes. I have spoken to two schools about their admission policy, Skinners said thy are led by KCC and if KCC allow the child to take the test then they go through the same selection process (score/distance etc) as every other child. I was surprised about this, as another local comprehensive school said they could not take a child out of year group, as they were already over-subscribed.

We feel that (taking the secondary school issues out of the equation) moving him back a year would be absolutely the right thing to do for him, and unfortunately where we live, it looks like private is the only option for doing that. However, secondary schooling is very much an issue, and we are concerned about moving him before we have resolved this issue.

Currently, sending him private all the way to 18 is something that is potentially do-able, but not something we had planned for financially. I don't want to move him back a year now, if it is going to cause problems for him going forward if we are unable to continue to send him to Private school. However, leaving him to flounder in his current school, in his current year group it is highly likely that he will not get the best out of his years in education, which will inevitably have a knock on effect for the rest of his life.

Has anyone done this? Moved a child out of year group in primary, and kept them in that year group through to state secondary? Any help or advice would be very much appreciated.

How old is he? I'm guessing Y4 or above if you are thinking about 11plus.

A few thoughts...my dd (y4) has a similar diagnosis - mild/moderate dyslexia which through reception-end y2 was supported with a wait and see approach. Some delays and some fannying about by the school meant that she wasn't properly assessed until the end of y3 but her school have been willing to support her in school.

Unless the private school(s) you are considering are properly accredited in supporting dyslexic children (e.g. Crested or similar) I would honestly be very wary about their offering, especially if you would have to pay extra for specialist support on top of their normal fee scale - I have been told by other parents that 25%-33% might be asked for. In contrast, you could be spending that premium on a properly accredited PATOSS tutor who you've chosen and have an ongoing wiring relationship with.

Please do bear in mind that although his current school may be reluctant to accept the diagnosis - would be good if you can shed some light on this - a state school and LA has an obligation to meet his educational needs. So if they won't accept a private diagnosis, hassle hard for an LA assessment which if it is properly carried out will likely come to the same conclusions. Every state school has an SEN budget - but it's not ring fenced so in schools where there is not all that much demand placed on it - perhaps paradoxically the "nicer" small mc schools it can historically be spent on something else.

Bear in mind also that he can never be asked to leave a state school because of academic performance. Private schools can and do, at all stages. So if he is generally happy at his current school and has good friends, it may be better to work with what you have.

BTW, I am in the middle of radically rethinking my secondary school approach as a result of DD's diagnosis - I've posted a few times on this subject on MN.

working not wiring

We did.
DS born in August prematurely, so due mid September.
During year 2 we moved him to a big thriving private school and we haven't looked back. He is dyslexic with processing problems but also very bright. Originally he started reception with glue ear. The new school gave him 1 to 1 phonics sessions and within two years he caught up.
Now he is in year 7 and in the top sets, very happy and really enjoying school. At this school there are quite a few children out of year group, either up or down so there is no stigma.
Socially he was/ is quite young for his age but by moving down a year he fits in so well.
I would highly recommend it.

Elltee - he is currently Yr4. We've had the wait and see approach since end Yr1, and this year we decided to send him to a specialist dyslexia teacher one day per week, meaning he is out of school for a day. School were reluctant to support that, and I do understand why, but they promised all sorts of support and assessment in school. This has not happened. The difference in just half a term has been immense! He is gaining in confidence, and most importantly is happy. His self esteem is improving after taking a battering over the last few years, but this dyselxia tutor will only be a short lived thing. She will teach him until all the gaps are filled, and then he's on his own again. Hopefully with some new techniques on how to approach school going forward, but the frustrating thing is that we can see that he is a bright, clever boy, he just struggles with the secretarial aspects, and its holding him back. Superlovely, that sounds just like your son, and it looks like you made the right decision to move him back a year. Did he go to comp/grammar or private for secondary school?

OP, I am still relatively new to this but I would recommend spending some time on the Special needs section of MN to find out more about how the system should work, or contact some of the charities specialising in this area such as the BDA, IPSEA/Contact a family for advice on ensuring that the school/LA deliver on what they are supposed to do.

It is great to hear that his confidence and self esteem has improved - we have/are having a similar experience.

I'm not sure about why you view the specialist tuition as a short term need...every child is different, and their needs are different, but you can't "fix" dyslexia. It may be that he won't need so many hours 1-2-1 each week as he has been having, but it is probably wise to plan on him needing some sort of specialised 1-2-1 - at this stage it might focus on literacy/spelling, at a later stage it might be study skills.

We are on the fringes of Kent and so geographically within reach of the West Kent and Bexley grammars. I have decided not to think about 11+ at least until next year (y5) but have asked as many parents as I can both here and IRL about their experience of supporting a dyslexic child through education.

This has made me think about things somewhat differently - for example DD is typically exhausted at the end of the school day just through the sheer effort of learning. A 2hr daily commute from age 11 won't help that.

No firm decisions - there can't be - but I really am seeing the potential benefits to DD of being in a mixed ability environment as she is at the moment.

No, he is still at the same school which goes through to Year 8. Another bonus for our DS is that learning seems to be less focused on written work compared with state schools. There is more use of ICT, debating and drama and a broader curriculum which means that he can recharge his writing batteries through the day.
When we move DS on to senior school most of the public schools are very happy and used to children out of year and our local comprehensive was also fine as long as there is a place. He just won't be able to go to Eton or Winchester which we weren't planning or grammar schools. Also,for some reason, he can't do rowing ( last summer he did a watersports course and they said he was good at rowing.....!)

My son's birthday is at the end of august. There are no SN but I feel he would have benefited from being held back a year. It is not an option in the state system but I am sure if we had sent him to a private school he would have been down a year.

It is quite common in the private system and so there is no shame in it.

The big problem with moving down a year for a dyslexic child is that they don't necessarily need "more of the same" but a different approach. If the new school isn't going to teach him in a way to suit his needs, then going back a year may be like trying to explain to someone who is deaf by shouting at them.

I would suggest you need to learn more about dyslexia - it will not go away and he may always need help (although that shouldn't necessarily limit his achievements).

Unless you have it in writing that the grammars will let him sit the exam "out of year group" it's likely that they won't, and under current arrangements you would have no right of appeal.

I do realise dyslexia won't go away, and that I can't fix it. But the current situation is that he goes to a specialist dyslexia school setup, where he is taught on a 1:2 or 1:3 basis. The tutor that he has for that is filling in the gaps in his learning, and giving him tools and strategies to help him cope in school, and life generally. But it is not a provision that is available forever. She takes them until she has done as much as she can... which is great, and we are really pleased with how this is working currently. However, if next year, she feels he is ready to go forward with no specialist input from her, he will still be in a class of 32 with limited resources available to him. I suppose the crux of my wobbling on up there ^^ was:

"Has anyone done this? Moved a child out of year group in primary, and kept them in that year group through to state secondary? Any help or advice would be very much appreciated."

After having spoken to KCC about it last week, and being told that they accept children up or down a year group to sit the 11+, this week I emailed the same woman asking her to confirm the key points as I understood them after that conversation, and sadly there was a bit of back-pedalling. I fear that although everyone says it is possible, actually...there would be so many hoops to jump through it would be near on impossible.

It's not only the dyslexia that made us consider moving back a year. He is only 3 days older than the deadline for the previous year group... my quandary is more about how to integrate him back into state education if we find in 3,4,5 years time that we need to remove him from private.

I do know one boy who did this. He started at a Prep, but didn't fit and was bullied (the school was notorious for this), he then moved to State but his parents got him moved down a year. In year 5 he then moved to another Independent school still one year below his age. He had issues there in year 8 so they moved him to another State school still down one year group.

However it was a bit disastrous. He was a year older than most of the children, and developmentally by that age was quite advanced. He had a lot of girlfriends which isolated him from the boys (jealousy and he didn't treat girls very well, I don't think his parents had a clue what was going on). He was also not put into any top sets - as the teachers tended to not give him the benefit of the doubt over what sets to put him in (so if he was borderline they would put him down). He felt bored, so messed around - which lead to teachers being fed up with him.
In the end his parents removed him and sent him to another independent. I'm not sure how he did there, but it was a fresh start.

OP - Just a thought - what were his KS1 levels like? Although we had concerns about DD1's attainment, her levels were 2a, 2b, so meeting NC standards and putting her in the middle ability range, albeit towards the lower half of her year group. Ditto in y3 - not sure if you were given levels or the new meets/exceeds expectations scoring in the end of year report.

I think what I'm getting at, is if he has met the NC goals for each year and is thus achieving within what's expected for his age group, then then I wonder what moving him down a year would achieve - he would inevitably be covering some material he'd already studied again, and unless the teaching he received was more accommodating of his needs than what he's had so far then mummytime's shouting at deaf people analogy applies.

You do also have the option of another state primary school which might be more accommodating of his needs, especially if his current one is resisting doing what it should. It might be worth reassessing your local options and looking at some of the schools that have better SEN provision - you can see which ones have more children with SEN by looking at the DFE dashboard for the school. They might have lower headline academic results but may cater better for your DS.

My understanding is that repeating a year is rarely done in the UK on the basis that the education system is set up to teach a range of abilities in the same year group - but there is quite a bit of evidence that "grade retention" i.e. repeating a year may well be unhelpful for the sorts of reasons mummy time outlines above.

I haven't read the whole thread but my son in Yr 4 is dyslexic. I spent years battling his state school (including battles in respect of my older dyslexic children). I finally gave up and sent him private although I did not put him back a year. The private school has been fantastic. They have a properly trained SEN who works full time in that role and is appropriately qualified too. He gets differentiated work in class, they understand his difficulties, it is a smaller class so he does not get forgotten and he gets appropriate additional help. It is worth every penny to see him engaging in school again.

Loads of people said what elltee said in her first post but my experience has been the complete opposite.

Glad to hear that your move is working well for your DS CoreStrategy, I really am.

One reason (apart from the not unimportant fact that DD's school have responded positively) was that none of the 8 local private options, none were suitable. The 4 well run, academically strong ones have zero interest in supporting anything other than the mildest SEN, 2 have no SEN provision at all, 1 has a poor ISI report and the other's ISI report notes that parents complain that the level of SEN support does not live up to the claims made by the school.

So despite being in a position to pay, really state remains the best option for us at the moment.

Each area is different and I bet there are good state schools that will cope well with SEN. I am lucky to have found a school that suits my child - I do realise that. I don't necessarily think it is a question of private v state but simply finding a school that deals well with the issues involved. The state schools in the area in which I live are not renowned for being good for dyslexic pupils. That is probably why the private schools have found a niche in the market although it is also true here that some private schools are not interested in anything other than academically strong kids.

In Manchester it is, in practice, impossible to get a LA diagnosis. What really annoys me is that schools do not value a private diagnoses either. If they are not going to accept evidence from appropriately qualified people they should be able to provide their own professional evidence why they disagree. I only paid for private tests because the school categorically told me that it is Manchester's policy NOT to pay for dyslexia assessments.

Good idea Coolas. In my case, I gave up and removed my child from the dreadful school. I'd name and shame it but I don't want to out myself!

3boy- I have a late August dyslexic DS.

He moved back a year in state school (went back to reception again) he moved to a specialist private dyslexic school for years 5/6 which was a real success, then back to local state secondary school for years 7/8, the council (a London borough) accepted him out of year, but we did have proof that it was his state primary school in the same borough that had originally placed him out of year.

Unfortunately his secondary school move didn't work very well so we again moved him in year 9 to a small private school.

He's now in 6th form, but it's all been rather a struggle, dyslexia doesn't go away and it's hard to help a child to keep their esteem high.

I do think he is better off being one of the oldest in the year, but from a learning point of view age, doesn't really make any difference.

We may encounter problems with further education due to his age (for example he may want to do an art foundation year after A levels, but before degree, he will be too old to get it for free as he will be 19, so we will have to pay).

I would recommend that you work hard to make him aware that he is as able to learn as anyone else, I have been having real issues with my DC having a fixed mindset about his intelligence and ability to learn, which is very negative and really holds him back.

Good luck with your choices.

I have two August born dyslexic DS (I planned that well ) in Y7 and Y3. Mine are in a prep school which does support SEN well at no extra cost - they offer 1:1 additional phonics support, touch typing courses, times tables classes etc. The small classes do help them concentrate.

The key thing is to find a school that will support you DC, state or private. It depends on the child whether they will fit in out of year. It wouldn't have suited DS1 at all but it might have worked for DS2. I would look at local schools and interview them on how they would support your DS. Speak to the tutor about how schools should support him and see if you can get any sense from her of the best local schools for dyslexics. Although dyslexia doesn't go away, good strategies do help mitigate some of its effects.

One thing I would strongly recommend is finding some non-schoolwork activity that your DS can enjoy and be good at. DS1 sings in the school choir; DS2 is very sporty. It gives them an area where they are as good as everyone else without having to work twice as hard. My DC love to feel part of a group and as good as everyone else and dyslexia means that doesn't happen so often in the classroom.