4+ with no tutoring... doomed?

[caracaralina]

My DD is due to sit the 4+ for a few ridiculously oversubscribed North London independents (and St Albans girls too). She's obviously a totally amazing 3.5 year old - happy, crazy, loving, imaginative, funny. But she's in a v laid back state nursery and I am a bit ð??® by the idea of tutoring so young so in practical terms doesn't know all her letters & double figure numbers, can't reliably write her own name etc. She can also be quite quiet in new situations.

We're doomed aren't we?? Anyone with recent experience of children that got into similar schools at reception? Anyone know anyone (own DC, your friend's neighbour's second cousin's colleague etc) who wasn't reading and writing/ outgoing and super confident but still got in?

Not looking for a state/ private debate tho - we're not set on private it's just both my DH and I had very happy experiences of selective private educations (which I know I'm sure would have been equally happy in good state school!!) so we are exploring our options.

TIA

There's a thread full of nutters somewhere on here led by a tutor, where the general gist is yes, you must tutor.

I think it's utter bollocks and in tutors' interests to make such claims

The schools are looking for certain qualities and your child will either possess them or not. If they're looking for tutored children at 4, then I would avoid. I would give it a shot and you may be pleasantly surprised. FWIW, I know several obviously clever children who "failed" 4+, who got into great schools at 7 and 11, so it measures absolutely zero.

I don't think anyone truly thinks that it predicts intelligence. But to be fair to the schools, how else would you choose 24 out of 240 children that apply? Name down at birth? Whack up the fees so the place is full of Russian oligarchs. These schools could double their fees and still be oversubscribed but full of trust fund kids and out of reach of those of us who work for the money

damn, strikethrough fail!

I judge nothing,
But DD would have been hopeless as she spent much of her time at this age with a bucket on her head head butting windows.

My daughter is in a pre-prep in north London but I am planning to go to state primary, but I was told that for Highgate scissor practise was good. And also drawing people...
This was someone who I met in a breastfeeding group who was a reception teacher in one of the preps in the area who told me...

dc are both at a school which operates a 3+assessment ahead of admission to the nursery.

It was very low key - really designed to assess whether the kids could listen to instructions and adapt their approach. They claimed to be looking for bright and interested children.

Several years further down the line, I'm not sure that you could realistically claim all that they achieved that. What they did achieve was to get a batch of kids whose parents are supportive and focused (sometimes too focused) on their education.

I imagine their GCSE results will be above average - but I suspect that could also be said for all the other 3 year olds that they turned away.

OP - we did no preparation. But then ours is not a North London school so cannot guarantee that would work for you?

"I can't believe any test at 4 could correctly predict the highest achieving children aged 16/18."

And this is why even private schools sometimes fail to adequately prepare their children for 11+ - Not all privately educated children go on to achieve and pass to get in to a private selective secondary....

Schools that assess at 3+ do not guarantee to keep them for more than the first few years. They often have a fairly high kick-out rate at 7.

Wow.
I have been on a heated thread about the unfairness of 11+ and how some people feel that selection at 11 is wrong.
But 4....really!

18 years ago DD was not selected at 4 for one of the highs. It hadn't even occurred to me to tutor her, much preferred going out and about exploring the world instead of learning about triangles. and I only entered her because the Nursery staff felt her vocabulary and powers of observation were way ahead of the rest of her year and I thought she would enjoy it, which to be fair she did. Another child who had been tutored got in. As my mother, a teacher said there is absolutely no way of assessing a child's ability before the age of 6 and I went off the school altogether.

My DD went to a non selective prep then overseas to the equivalent of a state primary. Then she got into a much more selective school at 11, just got a First in Science at a London uni known for such things, has a scholarship for her Masters and is set on a career as a research Scientist.

So no, not doomed. Just focus on letting your DD grow up to become curious, imaginative, well read and encouraged in her talents and interests, instead of set on a treadmill of forever rote learning triangles for the next level of selection......

Well said shooting.

Yes please let your DD be the naturally inquisitive learner and explorer she is and enjoy play and being a child. So much research points to the fact that learning through play gives children abilities to problem solve, investigate and many other skills (that are sadly lacking in a number of university graduates who have had these skills 'schooled' out of them.)

Much of the other educational research points to parental support and engagement and quality of teaching as being the overriding factors of educational success. Google some of John Hattie's research...these factors are true regardless of socioeconomic status, starting age for school, private or independent schooling, country of birth or schooling etc...

Both of my DDs have been in selective schools since 4+. Neither were tutored. If they weren't successful in gaining places, they would be at another less/non-selective school and I would be supporting them in exactly the same way as now - to explore their potential, enjoy learning and develop at their own pace. They passed the criteria and keep up with the pace, so it is clearly a good 'fit' for them, but above all they are happy and enjoy going to school. And it is really close to home so there is hardly any travelling time!

You always have the opportunity to study, but you never get the chance to be a child ever again.

I hope your DD has a very happy time at whichever school she goes to. She has the benefit of your interest and best wishes for her education whether she gets a place at 4+, 7+, 11+ or none of the above!

Our pre prep tends to end up with 15+ of the 22 places going to siblings so the school uses the assessment sessions of the other 250 applicants for 6 places to frantically try to achieve a vaguely balanced class given the range of children they have limited choice over.