Advice please - Year 5 Twins Prep for 11+

[mandy214]

I have boy / girl twins. DD is Model Pupil. She's a happy, sociable, polite etc girl but her aim as far as school is concerned is to impress her teacher, got full marks in everything, hands in homework the next day (even though they have a week to complete it), you get the picture. Miss Conscientious.

DS - equally bright but aim in life is to play football. End of. When they have a test at school, he wants to do as well but mainly because that means he gets out to playtime quicker.

If he is asked the question, he wants to sit the exams and pass. He wants to go to the selective school. But every time I ask him to do extra work (e.g. a Schofield & Simms Mental Arithmetic - takes about 40mins) we have a melt down. He doesn't seem to have made the link between "extra" work and doing well in the exams.

I think he feels inferior to his sister, just really because she's a goody two shoes. They're in the same set at school.

They are due to start with a tutor (individually) and we always try to do work with them separately.

Anyone been through this? I don't want to build it up, I don't want them to feel any pressure but I want to encourage him. Just at a loss as how best to help them.

Any advice? Many thanks in advance.

I have twins, who are now in Year 10 and they were both given tutoring for a grammar school which they now both attend.

They attended tutoring together as they are and always have been a similar level, we paid less money (2/3 of the amount for the second child) with the same tutor and we were happy with the tutor, and it suited us in terms of time and logistics of getting them both to the tutor who was fairly local etc.

Both mine were towards the top of the year and their Year 4 teacher (at the end of the year) agreed they were more than suitable for a grammar education. It was important I asked at the end of Year 4 so I could set in place actions for them to receive tutoring. I say tutoring, but most of it was familiarisation of VR, NVR, types of questions that may come up, speed etc. They did 1 hour per week in term times but the tutor went away over the summer so we did very little then. The exams were in November then so we could have the summer off. They did a little bit more work in September and October. We didn't work with them separately as I didn't think they needed it. However, one of my boys was poorly a few weeks before the test and I did take the opportunity to go through some NVR with the other one as that was his weaker subject. His breakdown in results showed the weaker one to get a surprisingly higher score in this subject which could have been down to a couple of days spent with me on his own, I don't really know.

Having two children taking the test is quite intense. We took them to see the grammar school at the beginning of year 5 to ensure they liked it and to motivate them to work. This partly worked as most boys in my experience don't like sitting down and studying. We had an objective - to pass for at least one of two grammars and get them into the same school. We put in place actions to achieve this objective. I would have done this if I had only one child taking the 11+. There were a few times when they didn't want to study and do other things but you as parents have to decide what is best.

However, now they are at grammar, it is not quite what I expected. The school has no catchment area and takes those with the highest score. To the boys and I it seems like a normal school where there is low level disruption, fights in the playground, boys walking round with their shirts hanging out, girls with skirts as short as they can get them etc. I think I expected smartly dressed pupils, good behaviour, excellent teaching etc. The only difference between their schools and most others is that most pupils are more able and some are extremely clever. I think some of the teaching is questionable and some teachers just give them work sheets and expect them to get on with it as they are more able. I don't think they do anything special at the school, but they get good results and are therefore perceived as being a good school. But they are bound to get good results because they select their pupils by the highest score in a test taken by thousands. For your info there are three sets of twins in their year group at the school. There are also a couple of children who are twins whose siblings did not get in.

On the whole they get a lot more homework than their friends in other schools, they leave earlier and get back home later. They can't get home by public transport all the way so there has been a fair amount of commitment from me to pick them up from the bus stop every afternoon. Their friends are often out playing whilst mine are doing homework. I occasionally ask them if they are pleased to be at the school and despite all I have said, they always say yes. GCSE results will tell if we made the right decision. I have just starting thinking about how they will cope with AS and A Levels at the school as they will be asked to leave if they do not get the levels required. I did not know this or even consider it when we got into the school. It seemed so far away at the time but I would urge everyone who works their children hard to get into grammar school to think about what they might do in this situation. If your children are not near the top of the class currently and are not happy about working hard to get into a selective school, are they suited to such an environment and will they cope in years to come in the sixth form?

So, if I was doing it again I would do exactly the same but be less worried/stressed about them getting in as I don't think it is all it is cracked up to be. I think they would have done well at the local school and be in the top sets. When in top sets in years 5 and 6, they had a positive experience, a much better one than my friends daughter who was in the lower sets.

Hope some of this helps and good luck.

Thank you, that's really helpful. Its slightly different in that the grammars are local and single sex so we know if they pass they'll go to different schools but hopefully the long days / not being able to play out & socialise won't be the same. I know there is incredible pressure for sixth form, certainly one of the schools requires at least 4 As at GCSE to stay on. The thought of them being "invited" to leave is frightening. I'm going to plan to visit the school I think that's a really good idea. Thank you.

Thank you, that's really helpful. Its slightly different in that the grammars are local and single sex so we know if they pass they'll go to different schools but hopefully the long days / not being able to play out & socialise won't be the same. I know there is incredible pressure for sixth form, certainly one of the schools requires at least 4 As at GCSE to stay on. The thought of them being "invited" to leave is frightening. I'm going to plan to visit the school I think that's a really good idea. Thank you.

Hello. My twins girls have just started at the local grammar. RedVW is absolutely right, "Having two children taking the test is quite intense" and then some!

Our approach was to be realistic with our girls and discuss with them the number of candidates vs the number of places - if they wanted to sit the 11+, they should be aware that there is no guarantee of getting a place despite being academically able. But given that we live within walking distance of the grammar and both my girls were keen to try, they gave it go. We are not the kind of family which would have them sit multiple tests at various schools just for the sake of getting them into a grammar school (I make no judgement on that, just saying it wasn't our cup of tea). If they didn't get a place then they would go to the local catchment comp. We talked a little bit both together and individually about the chances of getting into the grammar, the possibility of only one child getting in, whether that child would go if their sister didn't get a place etc. All the permutations of outcomes. I don't know how helpful any of that would have been, for us it was the separation (actually the not-doing-as-well-as-my-sister) which would have caused the most problems I think.

We paid for a tutor to help them, an hour a week individually from Feb until the test in Oct (with several weeks off when the tutor or us were on holiday). I was not confident to do the prep work myself and my relationship with both girls would have suffered severely if I had been the one telling them what to do.

The tutor did a lot of test familiarisation but also a lot of English and maths. She really helped shore up and extend their general knowledge and confidence.

Both my girls are similar to how you describe your DD, they were very motivated to prepare for the test. However there were a few wobbles during when they didn't want to do the homework: our response was ok, it's your choice whether you do the homework or not. But in our and the tutor's opinion if you want to stand a good chance of getting in, you need to do this homework as preparation. You choose. She chose to do the homework (eventually).

That might sound a bit cruel, but there was no way that we were going to stand over her shoulders watching her do a paper to ensure she did it. If her goal was to sit the 11+, then we supported her as much as we could by providing her with the help and papers etc. We had to remind her of her choice and let her choose again, along with the consequences of that choice.

OP are your concerns more apprehension that your DS won't do the prep work? Or apprehension that he won't get a place? Or actually the fear that he will compare his results against his sister's and possibly be upset with that? There's a lot of anxiety for us parents twins going through this!!

Because the pressure is immense for twins IMHO. Whether it's obvious or not (and only you as parent can really know), the comparisons that the kids themselves make between and against each other, it's constant and sometimes soul destroying. I think it's also unavoidable, because they don't live in a bubble as an only child. Probably similar to siblings, just intensified for twins. Especially between twins with similar abilities in some thing.

Presumably you have done / will do the open evenings. That might work for your DS to motivate him towards the grammar. Seeing the alternatives and being happy about those would relieve some of the pressure of "you must get into the grammar". If your DS says he would like to try for the grammar, be clear with him that it's his choice and this is what he needs to do to prepare himself and put himself in the running. If he wants to spend all his time playing football instead of prep work for example, then he will lessen his chances. But perhaps he will start with his tutor and that will encourage him through the prep work.

But we stated categorically to our girls that getting a place was not the end all and be all, that they were not changed or diminished if they didn't get in. The system is not perfect and a 2 hour test is purely a snapshot of a child in that situation, with a lot of luck thrown in. They wanted to go to this school, so they tried their utmost for that opportunity. I couldn't have pushed them towards it against their will. We gave them a small present after the exam as a reward for their effort, not for their results.

We are now finishing week three of secondary and the shine and excitement is beginning to wear off a little. But one of mine said already that it was really nice to be in a maths class where she didn't feel bored waiting for the rest of the class to finish, they all worked at similar rates together as a class. She liked the togetherness and not feeling "odd" or standing out for being good at maths. So that bodes well I think. We also have a few pairs and half pairs of twins in our year (and more in other years).

Good luck on your 11+ journey. (Apologies for such a long response.)

That's really helpful thank you. In answer to your question its a combination of worries for DS - worry that he constantly compares himself to DD because they're always together / same class etc and invariably he does come off worse (in his head) because he thinks she's more clever (even down to e.g. being asked to take the register back to the school office turns into "she got asked... so the teacher likes her better than me", worry that he won't try as hard with the preparation and yes ultimately that he won't get a place not because he isn't bright enough but because he didn't try hard enough. I know that sounds really bad, and I completely agree mostly that its his choice but I want him to make that choice if you see what I mean! We are due to start with the tutor in a couple of weeks so might see what she says and if that encourages him to do the work. Thank you again.

As a mother of boy twins now in yr 6 I share your pain. Mine are quite similar in terms of innate ability but one has better application than the other. One is finally getting the message that the tests are not far away and the work we are asking them to do is not for much longer. The other one is still in the meltdown phase like your son.

I wish I had an answer for you!