religious education

[jen333]

Has anone exercised their right to withdraw their child from RE classes? If so how has the school reacted and what have they offered as an alternative?

I guess if it's taught as you describe then there wouldn't be a problem - but should the lesson still be called Religious Education? I think that no religious education would be preferable to poorly taught religious education, which I suspect would be the case in many schools.

My ds has just completed his RS A-level. The papers were actually called 'Philosophy and Ethics' on his timetable from the exam board.
Maybe the whole subject area / department should go for a "rebrand" or name change, but you really would be doing your dc a favour if you found out what's taught, rather than hearing the word 'religion' and then withdrawing your child.

I can't agree with the 'religion should only be taught by the parents' argument though - that's the way that separatism happens, through lack of understanding and fear of the unknown. It's good that all children grow up understanding the reasons some people live their lives the way they do.

The original poster did actually ask for information on the experience of others in making a withdrawal, not for views about the choice!! Personally I think this non-subject has no place in a school curriculum, and I moved both my kids away from a church school where it was linked to some really rather squalid evangelism. Some syllabuses are slightly less pointless than others though - if there is a genuine philosophy course on offer perhaps with a bit of the impact of religion on ethics that might be worth being more positive about it. But there really are some truly ghastly syllabuses still around that are to be avoided, and round our way the so-called Agreed Syllabus was totally unacceptable in its imbalance. But if you want to see something truly awful take a look at:
www.deni.gov.uk/re_core_syllabus_pdf.pdf

Sorry, are we only allowed to answer the question asked now?

I think that a broad based RE curriculum can support general skills such as literacy as well as more subject specific skills e.g. philosophical/critical thinking and empathy. Studying religions is also pretty important for cultural understanding, both in terms of living in a multicultural society and the British cultural heritage which is distinctly Christian. For example you would struggle with English Literature and History without some religious knowledge. And The Life of Brian wouldn't make any sense without a reasonable knowledge of the New Testament.

Roguedad - that syllabus is awful. In our area a lot of the village primary schools are CoE and we wouldn't live in a village with a denominational school because of the risk of that type of RE.

roguedad I am at that syllabus and will definitely be checking what syllabus DD1 and 2 are going to be using in their school. I hope it won't be as horrendous as that one.

Roguedad's right ... I was hoping to get some info on what alternative was offered, or what kind of a reaction was received, when a child was removed from an RE class. I am seriously considering doing this when my daughter starts high school, as are at least 3 of my friends. I have only just discovered that this is an option so am doing a bit of research.

My goodness ... is that a current syllabus? If so where? It goes some way to explaining how my daughter became a christian convert at the age of 5 (at a non-denominational state school), and the model of Christ on the cross (with nails and blood drawn on his hands) created in year one!

I love the idea Pico2 that you should study RE in order to understand The Life of Brian ... brilliant!!

I'm head of RE at a large non-denominational comp. we still call it RE for 2 reasons:

1. if we call it Philosophy and Ethics it appears on the timetable as PE which causes logistical problems when pupils have, well, PE :)

2. they call it Religious studies at GCSE so it makes sense to follow on that.

We do have a policy of what to do if parents wish to withdraw their child from RE lessons but it doesn't involve extra English / maths lessons.

I second the advice to check the curriculum though; it might just surprise you. I think I'd just call it "thinking" if I had the choice!

Hi PotteringAlong, why not EP then:) Also, what is your policy? Do you have many children withdrawn from RE classes?

I asked about EP but I glazed over with the answer!

I've been head of dept for 6 years and have never had anyone withdraw. I've had people enquire about the syllabus and have sat down with parents who have been considering it but no one has ever, ultimately, withdrawn their child from my subject.

Our policy is that pupils will be supervised by a member of SLT in the back of their classroom and we expect pupils to take suitable work with them. To be honest it's not that robust but, like I said, I've never had to use it and I'm not expecting to have to so it's just there as a theoretical document at the moment.

OK ... it's going to be a tricky one if I do decide to go ahead and there's no one else. My dh may not feel too comfortable. However, three friends have suggested that they are considering withdrawing their daughters too (and it will be at the same school). Perhaps this is the issue as it is at primary level. You cannot ask a young child to be removed from assembly when they may be the only one.

So the pupils have to stay in the classroom where RE is being taught (theoretically)? I was hoping that they might be allowed into the library instead ... we shall see.

No, they'd sit in the back of a different lesson.

It may seem flippant to suggest that you need to know about Christianity to understand the Life of Brian. But I do think you lack a rounded education if you don't study religions. You would struggle with cultural references, understanding social issues and local, national and international politics without religious education that went beyond primary level. Though I am regularly amazed by the lack of general knowledge in some of the people I come across in life, so perhaps my belief in the value of a broad and rounded education is excessive.

You'll find that at a lot of schools it's called 'RPE' now -'religious philosophy and ethics' and it's a brilliant humanities course that promotes discussion and understanding... Something that many other subjects don't (and I say that as a history teacher!). It's one of the most popular choices at GCSE in our school.

Of course religions are so many and varied in this country nowadays. Perhaps if there weren't so many faith schools children would mix more and learn from each other. I like to think I have a rounded education and have a decent understanding of social issues and international politics without an indepth knowledge of any particular religion (even though I went to a catholic school). Gained, I think, by having many friends from many different countries, having lived abroad, and having an interest in most things.

Has anyone out there removed their child from RE or is a teacher with children removed from their classes?

You're lucky if she can get that from varied friends and living abroad. We live in a by white British area, you'd struggle to find children of minority religions in the local school.

I don't think that RE would give in depth knowledge of religions (though there is often a bit of depth to the Christianity sections) unless it followed the kind of syllabus that rogue dad linked to.

Living in London we don't have a problem with a lack of minority cultures. It appears to be that those from minority cultures with religious conviction generally send their children to faith schools. We have plenty of friends from various cultures .. but few that attend non-demoninational schools seem to practice a faith.
RPE sounds interesting but maybe it's popular because it's an easy option - and is it compulsory?

Sometimes pupils find subjects easy because they find it easy to be interested in them, not because the subject matter is intrinsically easy.

Good grief - it's not an easy option! . It's considered very highly - it teaches pupils to think critically and debate a subject, as well as giving them a really good general knowledge of the origins of so many things that are in the news.
It's the same subject, but under a different name - which you said you liked the idea of earlier!

I teach RE. Whilst it is your right to remove your child from RE, do not expect your child to receive any extra lessons in its place. The school does not have to provide this.

In the schools I have taught in, When students have been withdrawn from RE (usually JWs), they have gone to the library to do private study. Whether they actually do it, is usually another matter.

Do be aware, that if you do withdraw, this only applies for the year, and the head can call you in each year to meet and discuss whether your child is still to be withdrawn.

This is the govt guidance:

"Where parents have requested that their child is withdrawn, their right must be respected, and where RE is integrated in the curriculum, the school will need to discuss the arrangements with the parents or carers to explore how the child’s withdrawal can be best accommodated. If pupils are withdrawn from RE, schools have a duty to supervise them, though not to provide additional teaching or to incur extra cost. Pupils will usually remain on school premises."

However, I would encourage you to really have a look at your syllabus at secondary. Some of them are great. I'm not in secondary any more (now FE), but when I taught secondary we looked at atheism, agnosticism, humanism, all religions, cults and sects as well as the traditional religions. At KS4, we did philosophy and ethics, common to most schools.

And "without influence from the school". Also, the parent does not need to explain why. This is a legal right. Obviously, no alternative lessons are offered otherwise students could be leave enmasse. I shall check out the syllabus and investigate the options at other local schools etc. Only just found out about the legal right so am at early stage of investigations:)

There is a useful page on guidance at:
www.secularism.org.uk/your-rights--withdrawal-from-re.html
which also reminds you that 6th form kids can withdraw themselves. I'd press the school to provide useful other work as well.

R.E. is not about indoctrination; it is about learning what different groups of people feel and do in various situations. It does not tell you that you should be thinking and doing these things. One of the world views included should be humanism.
It encompasses, as so many posters have put far more eloquently than I can, philosophy, reflection, addressing moral issues and the big questions of life, while developing thinking, reasoning and debating skills which are valuable in all subjects and walks of life. It stimulates children to learn to think and judge for themselves ... why would you not want your child to take advantage of this?
And why should the school provide alternative education if you choose not to take part in these lessons? The idea of having extra homework time is ... bizarre.
If you decided that you don't travel abroad, would you have your children withdrawn from languages? Or from PE because you don't take part in sports at home? Your child is a member of our society and has the right to be exposed to, and learn about, all the various influences which make up the lives of members of our world, so that they can make up their own minds about the value of things when the time comes.

Well RE classes should cover the subject of indoctrination.
The idea that RE (at gcse level)is now actually a class in ethics and philosophy is a very recent one. I see little point in learning about the many religions if you are not religious and have no interest in the subject. That doesn't exclude learning about culture and history of course - but perhaps in other more appropriate classes.