is homework at age 6 to blame for high levels of parental involvement in homework throughout school?

[thewomanwhothoughtshewasahat]

me and dh were just thinking - if you give a 6 year old homework it is not something they can be responsible for. Rather, it becomes something for which parents must take responsibility. When we were at school, we didn't get homework until we were 11. At that age we were expected to take full responsibility for it. Our parents never even knew what it was. Their involvement comprised no more than the occasional "have you done your homework?" This was the case throughout secondary school. Now that 6 year olds have homework, parental involvement becomes obligatory - children learn that homework is something they do with their parents, not something they do independently. Parents are left having to wean children off parental involvement or - as seems to be the case - letting it continue. And children simply don't get the opportunity to work in a truly independent way and truly take responsibility for their work. what do you think?

I think it's crap and they shouldn't get it until much later.

Don't know, but I hate the whole concept at this age. Ds1 is 5 years old and in Year 1. I've already overheard bitching about how they haven't had any reading books back yet and how they're not getting enough "work"... that they may as well be in nursery, ffs.

Ds1 is tired when he gets home. He wants to chill, play around outside, or just veg in front of the telly. He doesn't want me nagging to do his reading, or learn words or even go through a discovery bag. And I dread to think how hellish evenings are going to get when ds2 starts school too, trying to help them both in a very limited amount of family time.

Of course I want to spend time with them, of course I want to be supportive of their time at school. But at home, I want to be doing OUR stuff together, not what activities are dictated to us via the school.

Oh and it doubly pisses me off when I try to get ds1 to do most of the effort himself and then go to school and find out about the amazing creations the other kids made (blatantly with major help from mummy and daddy). What's the f*cking point - why don't they just give US the homework direct and cut out the middleman?!

Sorry ... went into rant mode, didn't I?

Oh, and I seem to be in the distinct minority in the playground for wanting kids to be kids as long as possible. Everyone else seems to be pushing their kids to be geniuses by the age of 6. I really have to keep telling myself that I don't want to parent like that and that's okay, because some days I just feel like I must be the most lax parent completely disinterested in his education... and I'm not ... honest.

I agree with you GeorginaA

My 2 had homework from the 1st year and the teacher said we shouldn't take responsibility for it and they have to be left to do it by themselves otherwise she can't see if the teaching from that day has really sunk in. That was in the old school , in the new school we have to sit for a couple of hours doing extra work because the teaching is so poor. Half the kids don't even bother doing their homework so the standard at 11 yrs old wil be a disgrace - good schooling shouldn't need any homework in the first 4 years , we never had any.

Speaking as a teacher who sets homework through gritted teeth I don't think there should be any homework until key stage four

Thank f*ck for that, www, I thought I was going slowly insane.

Oh and the argument seems to be (from certain playground parents) that the kids who go on to private secondaries here are shocked by the amount of homework expected at the age of 11, so they should be getting more in primary to get used to it more. I just feel incredibly sad and think the argument should be for more realistic homework expectations in secondary school, but there you go...

I agree with everything here - but my specific q is about the long-term impact. Admylin - by taking responsibility for it, I didn;t mean doing it. I just meant that they are simply too young to understand the concept, they simply will not do it unless you say that it's time to do their homework, and stand over them. that's what I think is a bad habit. Children need to learn independence. homework at 6 teaches them the opposite. And I do wonder if, along with increased course work, and the use of the internet, it is in part to blame for the apparent inability of children to work in a truly independent way.

I completely agree with you, hat, and with Georgina. Having said that, ds just started at secondary school and has had such a change in attitude. I always had to nag and help constantly, but he has somehow taken complete ownership of organising his homework now. He just gets on with it without being asked, so there is hope, and I think it's come as less of a shock to him than it did to me when I was his age and was completely unused to homework. Still think it should be banned at primary level though...

that's good to hear tamum. I would like my theory to be disproved!

I have in the past read Polly Toynbee quite persuasively defend homework at primary age. Her argument was that it "levelled up". Kids with educated and/or supportive parents benefit from a home environment where books, reading, writing, trips to museums etc, and learning in general are all encouraged. The argument is that homework means that the kids that would otherwise not receive this kind of support at home at least get something out of school hours. For me, this is definitely the strongest argument, but I do wonder if there are other ways of levelling up.

Is the transfer to independent study supposed to be a gradual one that happens in the last few yeras of primary school, or should parental involvement continue until they finish primary, and stop abruptly when they are in secondary school?

Most homework I do with my children (yrs 1 and 2) is reading, so I need to be there for them to read out loud to me. I usually suggest to them that they look at the book on their own first. With numeracy homework, there is a bit more flexibility and it is easier to encourage independence.

I reckon it is something that tends to iron itself out. if the habit of parental involvement means that parents and children get used to discusing schoolwork, then surely that is a good thing. Similarly if parents are more likely to inquire about how children are getting on with their homework.

My DS1 also just got on with homework at secondary when I'd had to nag at primary. By child number three, I have become more chilled about it and let them take in what they produce, rather than checking it over all the time. We have had castles and bird tables taken into school which could virtually be lived in / sold in B&Q (ours was made of kitchen rolls, when one bird table was wooden, virtually tongue and groove!).

I think homework for primary school children discriminates against large families. I am surprised I have not heard more complaints about it on mumsnet and in real life - or perhaps I have not been around to witness the ranting when it has happened.

Families who have 2 or 3 primary aged school children - or toddlers and babies needing lots of attention - must be at a disadvantage compared to families where there is just the one child.

I hate the way current good parenting expectations dictate I should read to my children, AND listen to them read, be around for homework help, cook a proper supper, seat the family at the dining table to eat it, make sure my children have brushed their teeth, and got them into bed at a reasonable hour - and all this starting from 6.00 pm when dh and I get from work. And lets not even go into the expectations of my children attending out of school clubs and taking up hobbies, music practice, sports practice - all that preparation and ferrying around AS WELL.

Impossible to do everything night after night and not get bad tempered and stessed IME

I think homework at primary level sucks ( so with you, hat, and georgina). Ds1 had more in reception than in any year since - well, until now it seems (year 5). Yet, at the same time, I remember well how much of a shock it was to suddenly get homework at secondary school when I had never had it before - suddenly, age 10, I was having to stay up til 10/11pm to finish my homework - and it was as much of a shock for my parents as it was for me.
I don't know what the answer is - I deeply resent homework atm - eg., this weekend it's taken a whole morning and our weekends are precious - dh rarely has a whole one off.
And - stream of consciousness now so apologies - I did have help with homework at secondary level: I wouldn't have O'level maths had it not been for my Dad (patiently - and often not so patiently) explaining concepts to me...only now, as an adult, that I appreciate how infuriating it must have been to get home from a long day at work and have to face explaining mathematical concepts to a child who had no aptitude whatsoever..,
Told you it was stream of consciousness...don't know what the answer is. Just dreading having TWO lots of homework, now ds2 has started in reception.

I haven't read this thread in detail, but I agree with so many of you.

Tigermoth - I know where you're coming from. We have had difficulties too with much younger children to see to in the evenings and at weekends I don't want homework hanging over our heads.

One Christmas holiday there was just no time and we were rushing to get a piece of work done the day before dd went back. A project...at age 6! Of course we had to help her quite a bit, she was too young to know what a project was really.

I just don't think we need set homework to show we're taking an interest in our child's development at infant and primary level.

Oh god marthamoo - your post just had me flashing straight back to homework and my dad helping me with maths.

The tears, the shouting, my mum saying 'just leave it for now', him saying ,'What are they teaching you at that school - it's perfectly simple!' Awful, awful!

He was trying to teach me his way learned in the 1940's but his methods bore no resemblance to what I was being told.

tigermoth, as a mother of three I quite agree with you on the overload point. There's also an equal opportunities issue - those whose parents can't do the homework are at a disadvantage. It's just as well my parents never attempted to help me with my Maths homework or I'd probably have failed!

Well put tigermoth! With a dyslexic DS1 at secondary school who needs help with homework, and a stroppy 3 year old who struggles with the concept of anything happening in the house that doesn't revolve around her, I can just about cope with 10 minutes reading every day and the occasional spellings for DS2(7). I feel constantly guilty, not helped by a friend who is always "complaining" about the amount of homework her DS gets, when really what she is doing is boasting about how much he is able to do and what a wonderful mother she is for spending all this 1:1 with him (only child by the way!).

Really interesting reading. I have 1 3yo ds & 1 6mth dd so not in the system yet...but nervously nodding my head at all these issues. Far too young and shocked that homework happens at reception. [shook] Where's childhood gone? There's enough of this competitive parenting around to last a lifetime.

I think it is something you need to raise with the school. I don't think there's any policy on homework so I imagine it's all up to the teachers/staff at school.

Luckily, my two are at a primary school that doles out precious little homework and it's only from reading this thread (and other homework threads) that I have realised this!

hatwoman, I completely agree with your first post. can feel a major rant coming on, so wil lparp myself off here...

have to come back and add - you are so right, tigermoth! and it is even worse in Ge rmany.