£350 for 1 week in July term time- family of 7 - or £1100 in school holidays??

[devonvalley]

Yep that old term time holiday chestnut-
We are a family of 7 we can only afford to go on a Uk term time holiday, or have no holiday at all!(yes I know some do not holiday at all !)
Why is it seemed the, one holiday a year family, like us, have to be penalised , and berated?
It appears to my friends and I, that in our experiences, the people who can afford there £3000-£4000 a year on their peak season holiday, have little regard for families such as ourselves and our friends predicament, because money appears to not be an issue for them.
Travel, new experiences, and valuable family time are great educators , are they not? so when those of you who resent , parents who take our children out for 5 days once a year, spare us a thought, its most probably the only time we can afford to go.(and avoid fines by ......!)
Also when school residential trips seem to cost £270 upwards- £350 for 7 of us to go away, not just one of us seems to be preferable!

If you take your annual holidays in term time for cheaper holidays then does the cost of childcare during school holidays make that saving worthwhile?

I imagine many won't have the luxury of being able to stay at home if they have used their holiday entitlement in term time

Sorry, but apart from the odd very unusual circumstances, I have yet to see a really valid argument for term time holidays.
IMO it is about rules and respect. So often in our local primary playground I used to hear comments such as " well my children won't be doing xxxx school rule". It really shocked me.
School holidays are for holidays. If you can't afford one, then go without.
Why can't people camp in a field and enjoy family time together cheaply like that.
I suspect people are really saying when they talk about family time relaxing together, that they really mean family time together IN THE SUNSHINE.

In the case if many parents at my school they do have someone at home with them in holidays.

Likewise when I grew up and had term time holidays - factory shut down as said - I had a parent at home most of the time in school holidays too.

Op - I have just re read your post. You are talking about a uk holiday. Good for you.
With 5 kids though life must be expensive generally. 5x school residentials, gosh your food bill must be sky high too.
Do you have relatives anywhere where the kids can be despatched to for a break??
Have to admit we stopped at 2 dc for sanity reasons, let alone the cost!!!!!
But, presumably, that was a choice you made, so you have to stick by that choice.

but having a stay at home parent is another lifestyle choice hulababy which often means doing without lifes luxuries like holidays

Ooh so many issues here.

13 weeks not in school and 52 weekends.

It's rule and in my opinion rules are not there to be broken providing they are reasonable and I can't see how this is an unreasonable rule. DC have 13 weeks holiday and should be at school the rest of the time unless they are ill or there is a very very good reason.

5 children - the OPs choice so I'd have thought suck up the economics of it.

An entitlement to a free education for all dc in the UK.

It's interesting that at my DCs indy school nobody took their children for holidays in term time; perhaps because they were paying about £500 pw per child for the privilege of an education and therefore decided not to waste it.

On the other hand I do hope this initiative makes parents stand up and insist that the last week of every term is spent on constructive teaching and not on videos, santa special days, dressing up days, games days, etc., as happened far too often in my dc's state primary years - again it doesn't seem to happen in the indy sector primary or otherwise - I think because parents paying fees would read the riot act.

mrz - there are sometimes more to it than a mere lifestyle choice though; certainly for a lot of parents where I work.

Also for some families it isn't that one is stay at home - just that they can juggle work hours to be available during the holidays a lot more; or that the other parent wrks in evenings/early morning or even nights.

NearTheWindymill - I know of a number of families who have taken their children out of school for term time (or at least time tagged onto the holidays) at DD's independent schools - both primary and now secondary.
Difference is that they don't get a fine for doing so, nor really any hassle for doing so either.

And also ime - independent schools DO have fun days, films, etc at the end of terms. And again - very little fuss if any if made of it.

easter holidays is generally cheaper than summer holidays fwiw, but with 5 kids, its gonna be expensive if you choose pre packaged holiday anyway surely?

Have you thought about a gite or something or going camping somewhere

although i dont have anything against occasionally taking kids out of school within reason. Nor does the headmaster of my childrena school thankfully. Some of them are more reasonable than others

I'm sorry but this is what happens when you choose to have a large family. I don't see why schools should accommodate.

Other couples choose to have fewer kids so they can afford to have things like holidays during the summer break.

One of the reasons we stopped at two- because we like to have foreign family holidays.

I had a music pupil once who missed the last two weeks of school to go to Spain unannounced. The mother then berated me in Sept as to why the other children in his group had been practicing new pieces over the summer whilst her child had not known to. Admittedly this is one particular incident, but I don't think people realise how fast school work moves.

"Why can't people camp in a field and enjoy family time together cheaply like that."

Said by someone who lacks teenagers & their primal need for WiFi, I suspect. Mind, I'm pretty sure it's not possible for me to enjoy family time with teens in any environment.

Camping can be surprisingly dear, I find. Still have travel costs & more expensive food & all the kit.

Initial outlay for a tent and accessories isn't cheap, especially one for a large family. Looking at tent prices at the moment as need a tent for a festival this summer - and I'm only looking for 4 birth ones.

Camp site fees are also not always very cheap these days, and decent ones get booked up very quickly from what I can gather.

Not to mention the unreliable British weather - when camping not so many places to do inside and keep dry and while away the hours. At least more room inside a rented cottage or even a caravan.

Are all 5 children of school age?
If you are taking 5 children out of school then the fines will be more than the saving, because the fines are per parent per child. So it will be 10 fines of £100 = £1000.
I don't know if you will get around it by saying that they are all sick because some schools now ask for sick notes and will issue fines if you are not able to produce sick notes for the relevant period. If I was the school and all 5 children had a mystery illness at the same time then I would be questioning that and possibly request sick notes.

I am an expat with children at an Independent school overseas and quite frankly I am bewildered by this discussion. I can't understand why people get so het up about children being taken out during school time Surely it is a life choice for the parents . The govt has a responsibility to provide education which it does but if the parents choice to take them out for a week that is their choice . It won't affect the class infact surely it's a win win situation as those in class will have smaller class sizes those weeks and those out of class get their holidays . Having worked in a school most subjects are repeated over again so if you miss it one term good chance you will get it again 8 weeks later. I can think of very little topics which extended so long that if a child was out of class one week they would not be able to follow the next (obviously it is a different ball game when they get to gcse level but I doubt your year 1 would fail to get into oxford because of it) As for teaching children to disobey rules . my parents religiously took me out of school every year . the only downside was I managed to keep missing the school photo! . I quite successfully got GCSE's/a levels / degree etc and have no urge to cause anarchy wherever I go. In fact probably the opposite. my DS went 4 years without a day off school as we are a particularly healthy family so no residue there from my ill gotten holidays to the Lake District. Also as my DF has passed away now I am very grateful for the memories of those holidays I have which we could never afford during school holidays

I wonder what would be the response if, instead of fines, head teachers were to say "Yes, you can go on holiday during term-time, but your child won't have a place at this school when you get back!"

Ah well, you see, Expatedout, in order to be seen to be "fair," you have to treat everyone like a feckless idiot who is harming their child's education by allowing even a single day out of school. That way you can't be accused of discriminating against those who really do fit the bill, or unfairly favouring those who don't.

Tanith - I have been saying the same thing for quite a while. It's just too easy to pay a fine in exchange for a cheap holiday as the savings often outweigh the fine (not sure it will with five sets of fines though). I don't understand how we have many Parents appealing for scarce school places and when they get those places they are not that bothered about attendance and the school rules. Either school is important or it isn't. We can't just pick and choose which rules we will stick to.

"I wonder what would be the response if, instead of fines, head teachers were to say "Yes, you can go on holiday during term-time, but your child won't have a place at this school when you get back!"

I think that's a great idea, sends the message if you don't value education or like the schools rules then you don't mind giving up the place.

The exceptions for close family funerals would have to be in place though as usually only a day to two at most of needing to travel and there would have to be something in place to stop people lying and saying they were sick. Making a call home daily would solve that as you usually get told of the call is being diverted.

I wonder how many of those that take term time holidays used the schools Ofsted in their choice of school? Quite happy to pick a good school but then don't mind trashing the Ofsted for future pupils when the school get graded down due to absence.

We can't just pick and choose which rules we will stick to.

I'm afraid that's exactly what I did see at our local primary.
And what I fear is happening in the general community.