Is there really any point with persisting with the 11+ at this stage - not sure ds has what it takes

[hmc]

He is at state primary.

Went to Kip McGrath from September 2013 every Saturday for a couple of hours and had about half an hour homework per week. We switched to a tutor in March - he sees her 1:1 for an hour each week and has about 1 hour homework each time.

Have recently tried him on two past English comprehension papers - "shadows in the snow" and "the dog from outer space" if that rings any bells with any of you - scored only around 50% each time. Have just marked 80 Synonym mc questions (tutors homework) and he achieved only 59%.

Supported him on some maths Q's (again tutors homework) - did the first 4 jointly then asked him how he would approach Q5 - he didn't know.

He's not daft - in Y5 but has been moved up to Y6 for literacy and maths as he is deemed able.....but these test scores are way off what is required for 11+

Exam isn't far off - gut feeling is that he is smart and will do perfectly well academically in the future but is not necessarily 11+ smart ?!?

When I broach this with dh with the suggestion that we don't pursue it further he says I am being negative and defeatist. I think I am being pragmatic - but don't want to sway opinions.... What do you think?

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I think the best thing for your son is to know he did his best. Also, reassure him constantly that the result doesn't matter, what matters is he goes to the right school, and if he does the best he can, it will be clear which is the right school for him. Make sure he knows the difference between smart and 11+ smart, and that plenty of clever children don't get selected and it doesn't suit everyone. We had a big celebration when my son did his 11+, long before the actual result, he got a digital radio as a reward for all his hard work, and a family meal out. We emphasised how proud we were of his self discipline and effort, and that as long as he had done his best, that was all that mattered. You know your son, you may disagree, but in fact the effort put in is good practice for the next step of education anyway, and much of the 11+ content is helpful to have covered. ( not all!). And if handled correctly , failing can be a lesson in resilience and priorities.

Best wishes

There are grammar schools where you have to achieve a passmark (which is set so the top 25% or so by ability pass) and then places are allocated by distance or other criteria, and others where the places are ranked totally by score so only the very top few percent get in (usually known as super selective). Which are you facing? And what is your alternative? And what does your tutor think? Would she be surprised that he isn't able to do the work unsupported?

I would say that there is still a lot of time between now and September, and you may well be surprised at what he could achieve if he works at it over the summer. But you also need to think about what environment he will be happier in in 18 months time.

Sorry that is not much help. I think every 11+ veteran has had (many) days when they have been more than a little bit exasperated by their child's (lack of) performance. I would give it a go unless you feel his self esteem and confidence would be totally dashed by a failure.

Your DS is probably tired from school and he might be expecting to relax at home. The tutor should be "on the case"... that's why you hired a tutor for. Your child's tutor should also be able to 'fill in' the gaps in knowledge or misconceptions, and most importantly offer guidance and exam tips on HOW the child should solve or approach the tasks. Sometimes can be overwhelming for a youngster to have to do work, work and more work. I was in similar situation not long ago but we had to hire a different tutor since March and my DS is more positive now and he is praising the new tutor. Good luck and keep us posted.

Thank you both.

Yes he may be able to achieve higher marks between now and September - admittedly he hasn't been practising intensively up until now, it has been fairly light touch.

That's an excellent way to approach it - emphasise our delight in his hard work and application irrespective of the mark at the end......and yes, the work put in isn't wasted work.

Ok - we will persevere but with that more measured approach rather than being too overly focused on the pressure of passing.

Thanks for the advice.

My DS too is very bright - in fact has been selected to do level 6 Sats test this week.
We got him a tutor about 18 months ago to tutor him for the 11 plus (super super selective one here).
He never liked going. He always needed someone to sit with him as he did the homework. Seemed to be unable to do any past papers if not guided by us.
His tutor said he was very good at non verbal reasoning and maths - 90% + most of the time. English needed some work - spellings and building up speed.

This time last year I too felt he just wasn't going to pass, although DH said I should not be negative. I wondered whether we should continue. But as we'd come so far we did.
I felt his heart was never in it. He just isn't competitive enough. He puts no pressure on himself (neither do we). Anyway he failed. No where near the pass mark.
The mark he got doesn't reflect how clever he is - as you say just not "11 plus clever."
Having gone through the process I believe the 11 plus isn't for naturally bright children. It's for children who are competitive, can knuckle down and devote hours of time to study. It's a big ask for a 10 year old!
I think they have to be in that mindset. I believe grammars are looking for the finished article not a work in progress. You have to be equally as good in every subject not just brilliant at two of them!
He was not upset in the least that he didn't pass even though his two best friends did.
If I knew then what I know now I would have stopped the tutor and maybe just tutored him myself (would have saved a fortune) or just not entered him for it.
I know how hard all this can be on us parents.

And thanks htm too - just seen your post. I do wonder if the tutor is all that ....

Is the school selective or super selective? Is it just maths and English or is there VR or NVR? Is the tutor one with experience in the 11+ in your area? What are your DC's current (or end of y4, if you don't know the current ones) levels?

My son started with 36%, then with regular practice got his average up to 90% over about 3 months

Part of it is familiarising the child with the type if questions, and what he needs to show in his answers.

Kip mc Grath is useful but not for this exam, as it is completely different type of work.

We did not sit the exams in the end, as DS and I really liked a local comp for a variety of reasons, also as any hint of hothousing does not suit him (SEN aggravated by pressure/stress)

But it was fascinating how good he got at the tests, when starting out he was completely nonplussed.

So it can be done!

I agree mrscardigan - I think it measures 'intelligence' quite narrowly. When I have read some of ds' creative writing at school for example I am impressed by his imagination, creativity etc but give him an 11+ English comprehension test with some dull unengaging story line and he switches off.....

It's Bishops Wordsworth in Salisbury - am not sure if it is selective or super selective (haven't really done my homework on that, perhaps because I am not all that invested in ds going there; it's dh who is pushing it)

Every child is different. Both my DD's passed the 11+ for our 'local' superselective. Neither was the type to 'knuckle down to hours and hours of study' at the time (DD2 is in y6, she still isn't. Dd1 is now. But wasn't then). Neither of them did or were asked to do hours and hours of study in preparation. DD1 isn't even remotely competitive, Dd2 though SO is. I agree that some grammar schools are looking for a particular type of child but I don't think it's the finished article. Or necessarily sloggers. DD2 has been doing L6 papers this week but I strongly suspect she won't get L6 in spag (she's dyspraxic). DS is just as bright as the girls but had no interest in even attempting the 11+, so he didn't. Every child is different.

Ds2's practice marks were not stellar - the mock helped place him (we could rank him from the results so knew he would have got in in the big bunch in the middle. He did then get in & is having no problems keeping up academically.

Unless you son is hugely stressed by the idea I'd give it a go still. In ds2's case we had a second choice school we all liked & told him we'd choose the school after the 11 plus results. So it didn't feel like all or nothing in the exam.

It seems the methods used is not working. The tutor should be well aware of the particular areas your DS needs to work on. How the tutoring sessions are being spent; how much time for teaching, rather than testing or marking? Maybe do past papers and mark them before the sessions with you, and let the tutor teach on the mistakes (and do the questions again to consolidate with you)? Most 11plus tutors give the same sessions to all their pupils regardless of individual needs. Parents need to be on top of the whole process: do not leave it to the tutor. There is still plenty of time before exam to progress, if good plan is in place.

hmc - contact me and I will advise... ;)