School run dads

[UnquietDad]

I work at home, while DW works 30 minutes away and has to get there well before the start of school.
So I drop DD(6) at school. One thing I have noticed - and I've no idea if this is normal - is that most of the schoolgate mums studiously avoid talking to me or even meeting my eye if at all possible.

OK, so I know about five or six of them, who will always smile and say hello but then turn away to talk to someone else. It could be because:
a) we are new-ish and they don't know us yet;
b) they have enough friends and don't need us;
c) mums don't talk to men;
d) we are the pariahs who got in on appeal and tipped the numbers over;
e) any man who takes his daughter to school must de facto be an unemployed waster and it would be embarrassing to be seen talking to him;
or
f) a combination of some or all of the above.

I have tried to make an effort, but they all gather together in little gaggles which it is impossible to penetrate without looking very needy.

Yes, I know it takes two to tango. I work from home, though, so a lot of the time I haven't got the luxury, as many of the mums have, of standing around and gossiping or going to one another's houses for coffee. (There are a few working mums, but I'd say the vast majority are SAHMs or only work 1 or 2 days.)

i don't think it has much to do with being a dad, i have found as a working mum i am usually left alone.

DH usually does the nursery run which is a bit different and gets on better with the other mums than I do.

Maybe the mums don't want to make the first move to speak to you in case their intentions are misconstrued. I know that sounds weird but I can imagine feeling a bit uncomfortable initiating a conversation with a man I didn't know anything about IYSWIM. Less threatening with someone of the same sex. The mums may also know each other from different contexts e.g. neighbours or playgroups etc.

You missed out one crucial option - i.e they all fancy you and are too mortified to chat. DH does the school run a couple of days a week and he reckons that all the Mum's are reduced to jelly when he strolls up. In his case, I would say he's talking rollocks but there's a possibility that it might be true in yours....

Of course the flip side is that it might be a mercy to be ignored. I'm quite a chatty sort but ds has just started a new school and I'm quite determined NOT to talk anyone in the playground because my life was plagued with complete loons when I was friendly and approachable in ds's old school. IMO the really cool parents are those that keep themselves to themselves. I'm always very intrigued by them!

Do you want really want to chat to the others or do you just feel you should?

It probably is at least partly because of your Y chromosome, I think.

I have to admit I rather enjoy chatting to the blokes who drop off their kids at DD1's school. I don't get out much

To be fair, it's better than it was when she started, as some of the mums feel they now know us well enough to arrange the odd play-date, etc, but I still get the feeling at times that DD is being left out of the loop.

To answer the question above, yes, it's more "should" than "want", and that's for DD's sake - I don't want her to be the child who never gets invited to play because nobody knows the parent. It doesn't help that there are "mums'" lunches, coffees etc. arranged - to which, let's be honest, I'd have no desire to be invited, but DW would if she could be there.

They all fancy me and are intimidated ?- hmm, I doubt it! I'm neither Quasimodo nor Brad Pitt, but surely if it were true I'd have had, um, overtures by now??

It's difficult as I don't know anyone else in our position - even in other families where both parents work, they find the mum can do the school-run sometimes. Our problem is that DW is herself a teacher and has to be in a town 40 miles away for 8.25 am - so being there to drop DD at registration would be logistically impossible. And we do need both incomes - we have a mortgage on both, and I'm in a creative industry where contracts are by no means guaranteed, so committing ourselves to living off my income would be dangerous indeed.

Then again, she gets a whole 6 weeks off with them in the summer!

Thanks, everyone, for your comments.

I think it's the same for mothers who don't know everyone already. We've just moved and having spent ages getting to know local parents in toddler groups, I'm starting again from scratch at the school gate. it takes a while. I went on a night out - called, not very helpfully for you "Mums out of the kitchen" (yuk) and was the only one of about 15 mothers who hadn't grown up in the local area. no wonder they are chatting, they have all known each other for generations. it just takes time.

I've had that a bit at some mums groups, but at the school gate, I've simply strode in and started talking to the mums. I guess at least one thought I was trying to pick her up, but the alternative does seem to be ignored.
I could live with that, but like UnquietDad I don't want it damaging DS's part life.
It's worth persevering, reached the point by summer hols where I could ask for all the mums mobile numbers so that we could get the kids to play.

fennel, I think there is an element of that too. We live in a semi-rural area of a big city, and it's a mixture of a minority of "incomers" and a majority of people who've grown up round here. (I wouldn't be so judgmental as to say you can tell straight away which are which, but it doesn't take too much looking and listening! Often the accent is a dead giveaway. Not always, but often.)

Many of the mums went to school round here themselves and have the kids' grandmas (or "nans") etc. nearby. They'll always be chatting about Mrs Bobbins from't High Street and Eric who does the roofing and lives down Thingy Street, who's married to Jenny, you know, Jenny Blenkinsop as was, whose mum had the, YOU know [meaningful look].

As someone who couldn't wait to get away from the town where he grew up and escape into university and the wider world, I find this a bit depressing, but each to their own...

As a WOTH mum who occasionally drops off and picks up my two children from junior school, I find the Dads by far the friendliest/most approachable at the school gates. Maybe it's because we are all occasional, so we have that in common? The other mums are not unfriendly, but they have a social network that I don't share as a working mum, so it's much more of an effort for them to talk to me than to each other. I found the thing that made the most difference was taking the children to the playground next to the school a couple of times a month after school in the summer. Having that chat with ds' friend's mums (and dad's too) every now and then seems to be enough to maintain a good relationship, and I am confident that if I asked one of them around after school their parents would (probably!) say yes. I think that you probably do have to invest some time in it, but I think it is doable even when you work full time. Dh picked up/dropped off most days for a couple of years when the children were younger and hasn't really connected with any of the other parents, but I think that's because he is anti-social!

Yes, I'm an occasional school gate Dad as well, and I see the point that it's more work talking to someone like that.
Once I've started conversations, I've not seen any obvious attempt to disengage, (or I don't notice).
I don't experience Unquietdad's newcomer effect, probably because kids at DS school are drawn from a wide area, and the only social connection is the school. Also, there happen to be no single parents in DS class, so there's no one obviously sharking for a new other half.
I've just changed career big time so can attend things like sports days as well. It's interesting that far more dads come to daytime events than when I was a kid.

Yes, I'm an occasional school gate Dad as well, and I see the point that it's more work talking to someone like that.
Once I've started conversations, I've not seen any obvious attempt to disengage, (or I don't notice).
I don't experience Unquietdad's newcomer effect, probably because kids at DS school are drawn from a wide area, and the only social connection is the school. Also, there happen to be no single parents in DS class, so there's no one obviously sharking for a new other half.
I've just changed career big time so can attend things like sports days as well. It's interesting that far more dads come to daytime events than when I was a kid.

We have a few dads who drop off most of the time and they are involved equally in the conversations. We have a good old flirt with them actually

Also, the WOTHM who drop off very occasionally chat just as much as the others.

Ooooh, we must be a right friendly bunch!

Anyway, I hate seeing people standing alone and awkward so I'd always strike up a conversation wtih them.

Apparently at the school we've just moved ds and dd from mums couldn't talk to dads even if they knew them well because of the gossip. Pity no-one told me that - I used to go up to dads i knew in the playground and chat to them. Dh actually worked with one woman who never acknowledged him in the playground in case anyone suspected anything. Village life is so crap sometimes.

We have a fair few school gate dads at our school (dh included occasionally) and they all get chatted to and are part of the general atmosphere.
I think and hope a) is the crucial issue - it does take a while to be accepted in this world.
One of our dads is a bit of a fox and has to beat off the mummies with sticks. Give it time, that could be you in 2009

I'm a working mum & I find that quite a lot of the mums congregate in groups in the playground. I tend to smile at people if I pass them or say hello, but I only really speak properly to the people that I have gotten to know.

There seem to be a couple of dads that take their children to school - I speak to a couple of them but didn't initially. I've found that I have spoken to more people each year - parents of new friends etc & now feel a bit more part of it even though I only tend to pick her up from school once a week. It's quite nice now as I've got a few mobile numbers & have had several good conversations with one of the dads when I've seen him in the supermarket! I think part of it is just being patient.

Also people thought I was a nanny at first so I don't think that helped!

OH sometimes picks LO up & people who recognise him will say hello, but mainly he speaks to the same few people that I do.

I think it does take time, but I don't think that it's because your a man.

join the p.t.a?
they normally love just the enquirey!!also they are also keen just to add a name to the list of helpers.
even if you cant make the meetings or offer yourself up to commiting to help on every function,every one can manage to help on at least one of the fund raisers,
you will meet the "movers an shakers"in the school
you will go straight to the top of the list for nativity play parts for your children
you will help your school,after all they do have a budget that the school govenors will want to have parents input on
you will possible have a good time!!

Re unquiet Dad's comments - please don'tr take this the wrong way, I may be totally wrong about you, but reading that post and the used of inverted commas round "nans" screams snob to me. If I think that after one email maybe the school rum mums think the same?? Everyone has different ways of describing things - drawing attention to these class/social/geographical type differences does not endear anyone to anyone else. Be friendly to everyone regardless and eventually people will either be friendly back or they are not worthethe effort.

I don't talk to any dads in the school yard as being a lone parent, I'm acutely conscious that it could be construed as making a beeline for him and wanting to immediately get him into bed.

Except one, whom I know very well and am good friends with his wife more than him. I know he's not going to think I'm talking to him because I fancy him and I don't care if gossips think that because I know his wife doesn't.

This is a subject close to my own heart! I'm a school gate mum who back in September made friendly overtures to a school gate dad and have felt reams of guilt for it ever since. I first spoke to him simply because he's very handsome. And he shares childcare with his partner, and I felt so guilty about fancying him that I also befriended his partner, and we are actually really good mates now. For ages I used to arrange my life so I could avoid School Gate Dad on the days he dropped off his kid, but over time I couldn't do that any more so bowed to the inevitable and just made friends with him, and we walked our children home together. His partner signed up their kid to the same gym class as my daughter and it ended up that I spent afternoons with School Gate Dad at the gym class, and we car pooled a couple of times too.

I'm a housewife and life is pretty dull so having a handsome male as a friend has been really the high point of my existence for months. (I gave up making friends with men once I got married). Every time I see him I wonder afterwards if our friendship is appropriate, and I look forward to seeing him and feel guilt guilt guilt about the whole damn thing.

And so now, with my children going into new classes I am making active efforts NOT to befriend any more school gate dads because I can do without the hassle and the heartache when I inevitably start fancying them!

My mother in law is a full time carer of her grandson and she says she really likes talking to the Dads because she is older and she knows the whole issue of women and men talking isn't a big deal at her age, they don't see her as a threat.

Sorry to read of your predicament, School Gate Dad. Possibly women expect the Dads not to be all that talkative. I know my husband goes to the school gate fully expecting not to talk to anyone. Conversations are so tedious and revolve around house prices and banal nonsense neither of us are into anyway.

If I knew you at the school gate I would probably befriend you. I'm the kind of person who feels left out and so makes friends with the other people who look as left out as me. Hope things get better for you.

unquiet dad-you would be happy here on the school run at dds school there must be approx 15 dads doing the run

sorry that hasnt been much help to you

katgod - sorry, wasn't trying to be snobbish, just put it in inverted commas as I do when quoting something. Maybe nan is more commonly-used in some parts of the country than elsewhere. My point about the neighbourhood was that it is a real mixture and it doesn't talke long (honestly) to work out who was born/grew up here and who wasn't/didn't.