RE - how is it done in your DC's school?

[preswim]

I've just been reading the RE Council's recent Review of Religious Education in England, which gives updated guidelines for a National Framework for RE.

Although RE is a compulsory subject, it's not part of the National Curriculum, so schools are free to follow their own syllabus. Faith schools usually follow a syllabus defined by their Diocesan Authorities, and Community Schools tend to use one created by a Local Authority committee (the SACRE). My understanding is that in both cases the National Framework is sometimes followed, and sometimes not.

The Framework is designed for all types of school, giving plenty of room for tailoring to a particular school's requirements. It recognises that in some schools "there is likely to be an aspiration that RE ... will contribute to pupils’ faith development". However, it's also designed to be inclusive, so that all major religions and non-religious world views are recognised, discussed, compared and contrasted.

Some people think that the Framework should be statutory, and I do too. Anyone disagree? If so, I'd be interested to hear why.

If it was made statutory, would it mean any big changes for your DC's RE curriculum?

most of Latin teaching is based on pretty old books innit

Latin is not a belief system : its an incredibly useful technical language

Elron .... where shall we start ... lobbyists probably

" RE is an irrelevance"

Talkinpeace, I think you mean religion is a irrelevance. Many would agree with you and many would disagree. Wars have been fought over these things.

However that is all the more reason why we should have education about religion. It's just as relevant to uderstanding modern society and culture as History, Latin, Eng Lit, Geography, etc.

preswim
if my kids were at a private school their curriculum would be uncontrolled
if my kids were at a catholic school their curriculum would be narrowed
if they were at a jewish / muslim / hindu / sikh / scientologist / wiccan / steiner school (state funded) their curriculum would not include other faiths

my kids have had the best of both : open cofE for 10 years
interspersed with reality

kids at state funded religious schools get no balance at all

But talkin lots of RE is moral issues - it's changed beyond all recognition as a subject in the last 15 years

The Bible which you so summarily dismiss dies have relevance today - as a Christian country our laws are loosely based on it, bishops sit in the House of Lords, it impacts on holidays (christmas, Easter) our dating system and yes, the morality of lots of people. It's a fallacy to state that morality and beliefs are not linked.

You said you behave in a moral way because you think it's right, not because of God. That's still a belief...!

pottering
I was christened and confirmed
I now see absolutely no need for religion in or near my life and find most of the sectarian actions of "believers" offensive

the beardy man in the sky does not give morality

intelligence gives morality

one of the things that made me utterly lose support as well as faith was watching "christians" leaving the "undeserving" to walk to school in the pouring rain when their car broke down..
I turned back on my schedule and gave them a lift
the "christians" were cross at me for months.

their god is a shit
my internal morality is better than that

I'm not disputing it. But my point is that internal morality is still a belief. Not in a God or a higher bring but a belief nonetheless. And in any RE department worth it's salt that will be taught, questioned and explored with equal validity to spiritual belief systems.

My DCs school cover RE in Cultural & Ethical Studies in KS3. In KS4, they take short course GCSE as compulsory (unless opted out).

None of them have enjoyed it and we all agree that it is a complete waste of their time. But if you opt-out, you have to go to learner support which is basically the room for behaviour sanctions, so it feels like a punishment.

I really resent having any religion in schools (I don't support faith schools either). Of course kids need to learn about the world they live in, but I do not think this is the best approach. I would take RE out and replace with sociology, philosophy and politics.

"kids at state funded religious schools get no balance at all"

Some do. Many don't. That's why the National Framework is needed, to bring more balance. I don't think you're disagreeing with that.

"I now see absolutely no need for religion in or near my life and find most of the sectarian actions of "believers" offensive .... the beardy man in the sky does not give morality"

You're an atheist, and like many atheists you're angry because you were given "Religious Instruction", rather than education, as a child. That makes me angry too. I'm angry that I didn't hear the word "Humanist" until I was in my early thirties. Nobody told me it was ok not to be religious ... it felt like something I had to keep secret at the risk of offending people or disappointing them. However, RE has moved on from that in many schools. I can separate my own experience from that of my children, and I see the value of education about religion, so long as it covers different perspectives.

What is the RE curriculum in a state funded jewish school?
What is the RE curriculum in a state funded sikh school?
What is the RE curriculum in a state funded hindu school?
What is the RE curriculum in a state funded scientologist school?
What is the RE curriculum in a state funded steiner school?
What is the RE curriculum in a state funded catholic school?
What is the RE curriculum in a state funded jesuit school?

just that only CofE schools are required to provide balance and breadth.

After the "reforms" brought in by Bliar and Broon, minority religions have free reign to indoctrinate ...

"just that only CofE schools are required to provide balance and breadth"

Not sure where that's coming from Talkin.

In my view, all schools, including faith schools, should follow the national framework. Have you read it? For starters, page 2 lists all of the members of the RE Council, which include representatives of all the faiths you listed, and atheist groups too.

"include representatives of all the faiths you listed"

Ok, so not Steiner or scientology :-) However, all the World Faiths are represented, as are non-religious belief systems. It's an RE council, not a CE council.

Disclaimer I do practise a mainstream religion.

I still think RE is important where it covers the major religions/belief systems that one will encounter and crucially how their beliefs impact on their lives. That's important for anyone from a doctor to a shop assistant. A national framework is probably the fairest and safest way to put that in place.

I don't think it should be based on one religion be that Christianity, Islam or Scientology. I do value faith schools which work around the major festivals celebrated by the majority of their pupils. I remember, for example, very observant Jewish students missing a fair few days. I can see how their parents would have preferred a faith school that accommodated that. But a single minded focus on one religion isn't RE, it's catechism.

"page 2 lists all of the members of the RE Council"

And, pottering, RE teachers are represented too.

And, Talkin, the independent school sector is also represented.

The fact that all those groups have managed to put together a framework that they can all agree on is quite something in itself, don't you think?

I find the actions of many atheists offensive too, 'religious' people don't have the monopoly on this.

In answer to the original question my dc love their RE lessons at primary school and always come home full of things they've learned about someone else's life. I don't feel our 'way of life' is remotely threatened by them learning about something which is so important to many people on the planet.

preswim
catholic schools teach catholic
sikh schools teach sikh
moslem schools teach muslim until they can kick the girls out

sorry but get with the reality
religious segregation in schools has resulted in the bunker sectarian mentality
religious schools are the least socially diverse in the UK (FSM in particular)

and are allowed to present an unbalanced view (illegal in non religious state schools ,,,)
faith schools are one of the most dangerous aspects of state education permitted today

ALL taxpayer funded schools should teach about all "religions" equally

Talkinpeace, you're not reading this properly, and as a consequence you're misunderstanding what I'm saying and introducing red herrings.

This isn't a thread about whether we should have faiths schools or not. That is covered elsewhere.

To simplify the main points of my original post .....

RE is compulsory - (Fact).
As it is compulsory, we should make sure it's taught well - (Obvious).
One way to control its quality is to make the National Framework for RE statutory - (My opinion).

Your arguments so far have been ....

Religion is irrelevant to you - (Happy for you to vent that, but it's irrelevant to my point)
We shouldn't have faith schools - (Again, irrelevant)

RE is compulsory : unless parents opt out
which at many schools they are encouraged to do wholesale - to make space for EbaCC subjects in the timetable

opting out of RE is easy
the more secondary parents that do it the better

I agree with it being compulsory at primary
but why are faith schools not required to be balanced in their curriculum ?
(they are not : cope with it )

preswim I have been invited to a couple of sacre meetings - it's a really interesting experience, especially when writing a new agreed syllabus!

Www.natre.co.uk is a website you might be interested in looking at the statutory / non-statutory national framework.

I have worked at a few schools and have contacts at quite a few more, the know schools that I know of where children are encouraged to drop RE are struggling ones or ones with a shit RE department.

All students take GCSE short course RE where my children go, by and large they seem to enjoy it and the department gets good results. I will admit that I used to be a bit negative about RE, but I every now and again I take a GCSE class and really enjoy teaching it.

Luckily we don't deal with parents who grandly say that they listen to radio 4 so don't have to take RE! Because our department is strong parents tend to be very supportive of the subject, it is strong at A level as well.

"but why are faith schools not required to be balanced in their curriculum ?"

Talkin, that's the very point of my thread! If the National Framework is made statutory then they will be required to be balanced in their RE curriculum. Or at least more balanced than many are at the moment. They will still be allowed to "instruct" through their assemblies and pastoral activities, but RE teaching, at least, will be balanced.

preswim
you really reckon that fluffy little framework will make Muslim and Jewish schools non sexist and Catholic schools non guilt ridden
GET REAL
FFS some protestants in Northern Ireland do not realise that catholics are Christian

Al Madinah
"framework"
real world

enforcement???????

"Www.natre.co.uk is a website you might be interested in"

Thanks Pottering. NATRE are members of the RE council, and therefore contributory authors of the National Framework. Presumably they would like it to be statutory too.

"you really reckon that fluffy little framework will make Muslim and Jewish schools non sexist and Catholic schools non guilt ridden"

No, and I didn't say that it would. It is a small step in the right direction. I think small steps are important and should be supported.

"some protestants in Northern Ireland do not realise that catholics are Christian"

And some militant atheists don't realise (or at least don't acknowledge) that many religious people are actually pretty moderate in their beliefs, and certainly don't justify hysterical reactions.