How do English and Scottish years match up?

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I have a 5 y.o just finished reception here so will go back in Sept as a Y1 (he`ll be 6 in April next year) and an 8 year old that has finished Year 3 who will go back as Year 4 in September (he turns 9 in November). What school years will they be in if we moved to scotland?
Possibility of DH job moving at Christmas and I dont understand the scottish system - please help!

Worth keeping in mind though that national 5s are a different syllabus than GCSEs too, my dd switched between them and found that they weren't very similar! Especially in subjects like history and English where the materials are very Scottish based in national 5.

thank u so much drawnmyjohn for ur time. it really helped.

If your dc1 is only going into Y11, then they should go into S4, which is the equivalent of Y11.

It helps that their birthday is in September, as technically (although it would've been highly unusual) they wouldn't have needed to start P1 when they were 4.5 (as they wouldn't yet have been 5 when term started in August). There are 7 years in a Scottish primary and 6 in Secondary, so S4 and Y11 are equivalent.

There shouldn't be any problems with the school getting funding after S5

prettybird

I thought the Scottish year groups go from March to February, so being in September they would be solidly in P1 starting 2007? So definitely majority going into S5 now. You can defer (if born September to December) but it's not automatic and afaik quite rare.

The funding thing was what I was told by my council, my dd couldn't go into the year below coming from the English system and she was born September. That's a very specific experience though, which is why they should definitely talk to the school/council!

They do - but you can defer properly if you are not yet 5 when school starts in August and choose to start P1 the following year. In practice, it's mostly January and February birthdays that defer, with a few November and December birthdays. I know of one October birthday - but that was someone who'd come from abroad.

So in practice, even though September is technically in the middle of the year (ds is himself a September birthday), in practice September birthdays are towards the you get end of the year, with classmates who are 7, 8, 9, 10 or even 11 months older! (and one friend who is only a month younger than him but is in the year below )

....but I also don't understand your local authority as Y11 is S4

GCSEs are the equivalent of Nat 5s

Yes the academic equivalent of year 11 is S4, but the school year equivalent is S5 as there are 7 years of English secondary and 6 of Scottish.

The extra year makes it confusing but we were told that the funding would stop for dd after the 6th year of secondary, so S5 if she had been put in the correct academic year.

No - England start secondary a year earlier than Scotland. Both systems have 13 years "formal" education: England has 6 in primary and 7 at secondary; Scotland has 7 at primary, 6 at secondary.

Reception is a non-compulsory year.

Ahh okay thank you, I'm confusing the years and the cross over between cut off ages! I thought reception was primary 1, my mistake. Why are degrees in England shorter then? Always thought it was because of the extra year of school!

Well afaik born September 2002 is starting S5 this year, unless deferred, but most pupils will be starting S5. So I'd talk to the council about it, and see if they can move her back a year because she hasn't completed GCSEs yet. But if they can't it isn't the end of the world, dd did the same thing and it all ended up fine! They can take nat 5s in S5 too, just not as many.

They're 4 years because in theory you can go after S5 (as I did), as you sit your Highers then.

In practice, nowadays most go after S6 - and may well have got Unconditionals as they already have their Higher results.

Depending on what they choose to do in S6 (Advanced Highers or more Highers), they may have the option of going straight into 2nd year at Uni (as do some A Level/English students) - but personally, I wouldn't recommend it, as 1st year provides an opportunity to get used to Uni studying techniques. Plus it makes the most of the Scottish broad education and study other subjects (you may end up doing a different degree to the one you applied for).

Some subjects - like the one ds is going to do (Politics and International Relations), you can't go straight into 2nd year as you need 1st year to learn the foundations of the subject (although after that you can specialise to IR ds' specific interest or Politics).

The thing is you can't say GCSEs = Nat 5s.

With GCSEs you can do anywhere between 10 -12 subjects giving a broader level of general knowledge but with little depth. With Nat 5s the usual is 6 (some areas might stretch it to 8) subjects so obviously the breadth of knowledge is reduced but due to the fewer subjects Nat 5s tends to have a lot more depth.

The jump between GCSEs and moving to A Levels is quite considerable with regards the depth. It can be a bit of a shock even for A* pupils.

Scottish highers tend not to have the same depth as A Levels so subsequently a good student can often take 5 Highers quite comfortably.

Some private schools in Scotland follow the English system so if private is an option then it might be worth it for the elder children for the consistency but it will definitely come at a price!

But Highers, in addition to doing more of them, are usually done in only one year (which is what the universities prefer) - at least for the academic kids.

Ds' school was one of those that does 8 Nat 5s (by choosing at the end of S2) and ds ended up with 8 Nat 5s and a Nat 4 (in RME). If he hadn't been doing PE as a Nat 5 (and had done, say, Art instead as I think that in the same column), he'd have ended up with 8 Nat 5s and 2 Nat 4s as he'd have been awarded a Nat 4 in PE (not that I'm suggesting that Nat 4s are particularly wonderful - not even sure they're still awarded )

And then, like the majority of the academic kids, he did 5 Highers in S5. Even though we don't officially have rankings in the same way as England, the number of pupils who get 5 Highers in S5 is one of measurements that people use to judge a school.

Interestingly, Advanced Highers are worth more UCAS points, grade for grade than A Levels (iirc, an A at AH is worth the same as a A* at A level and a B at AH is the same as an A at A Level).

Ds' school has a lot of experience of pupils coming from countries all over the world (including England ) and it has always viewed GCSEs/Y11 as roughly equivalent to Nat 5s/S4.

I agree about the jump from GCSE to A Levels - it's one of the things that Curriculum for Excellence was intended to address in Scotland: ensuring the jump to Highers wasn't so severe. Iirc, it was even intended that academic pupils would bypass Nat 5s entirely and go straight through to Highers - although very few schools actually availed themselves of this (maybe only one? - and even if it has stopped and now does Nat 5s). (Personally I agree as otherwise it would be a tremendous shock to the system if the first exams you encounter are the important Highers )