Who feels their own education was damaged by the holidays they had in term time?

[lljkk]

Judging by the strength of opinion on MN, there must be loads of you.
Speak up!

Yes Paintyfigers but as others have said they did well yet still have gaps in knowledge, mental blocks or just bits of the curriculum they were uncertain about despite getting A's so maybe there is an impact that isn't quantifiable by looking at grades alone.

And you could also say, well done to you for doing so well but maybe others who have a different mind set or work ethic, or family support or were slightly less able wouldn't have achieved their potential. Your experience is not useful data by itself, it is just your experience and doesn't in this context mean anything. It is because some will be adversely affected by term time holidays that there is a reluctance for anybody to take holidays. It is all very well, with the benefit of hindsight, to say it was OK but it might not have been.

Just as an aside, when DS1 started secondary, we were told that missing 16 days at secondary level equals one GCSE grade. It comes from research apparently although what it means in real terms I don't know. Is that one grade for one subject or all subjects across the board? Whatever, absence has a quantifiable effect.

Term time holidays! You've got to be joking. My parents would never have taken us out of school for a holiday.

Yes, I doubt the research differentiates between types of absence and whether families are otherwise supportive of education.

I'm another one who never took term time holidays neither did DH (his parents were headmaster & teacher though) and won't consider them for DS. It's not so much the odd week off but more the principal of picking and choosing rules to suit. I try to get DS to pay attention and heed rules, how can I expect him too if I only take notice when it suits me!

OK I haven't found the research I referred to yet but this report is interesting.

I draw your attention to the 3 bullet points on the first page.

35% of children get 5 or more GCSE's if they miss 10-20% of school.

73% of children missing less than 5% of school get 5 or more GCSE

There are 195 school days in the year so 10% is only 19.5 days. 5% is 9.75 days, so as little as extra 10 days or so out of school could halve your chances of getting 5 or more GCSE's. 2 week holiday can do a lot of damage.

The fact that some of you were in the 35% who did get their qualifications and went on to bigger and better things doesn't really help those for whom those extra days did a lot of damage.

The supportive parents thing is a bit of red herring. Naice MC parents wouldn't take their children out of school, not in my experience. It is those on lower incomes who can't afford school holiday prices who are happy to take their children out of school even though it goes again the rules. Supportive parents tend to want their children to be in school as much as possible to get the best education they can and to follow the school rules.

All the parents at my (1970s state) primary school were teachers, doctors or lawyers. It was just that kind of neighbourhood.
Perfectly normal for kids in my school to take 1-2 wks holidays in term time every yr.
Thus I conclude that teachers-doctors-lawyers are obviously not in the Naice MC.

So, er, Who is Naice MC?

Hmm, a couple of things about that report -

Firstly, it is a report, produced by the government, who clearly have an agenda against term time holidays. This is NOT independent, peer reviewed research on the matter. Please do not be fooled into thinking it is.

Secondly, Why does it not cover those that have between 5 and 10% off school a year. Why does the figure go from less than 5% to more than 10%?

To take a week's holiday term time is 5%, given that the 10% mark is usually accepted as 10 school days.

So from this, shall we conclude that to take a week's holiday has no negative effect whatsoever...? (And yes, that is the general consensus of most research out there!)

Bertha,
Have you read the report in full? Those statistics you were quoting - if you go down and read the chart, it breaks down into the type of absence, and shows that children who have up to 4% absence over key stage 4 due to holidays actually get better results than those students who have 100% attendance.

Well, that's that then. From now on, my children are always going to have a term time holiday, so I can improve their results .

www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBIQFjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gov.uk%2Fgovernment%2Fuploads%2Fsystem%2Fuploads%2Fattachment_data%2Ffile%2F183445%2FDFE-RR171.pdf&ei=3vXjUvvYC4SV0QWy8ICoAw&usg=AFQjCNE9XzA4ZKC7dVzVDOH3tbJi7Lbv1w&sig2=fvbIMKnmglYiQdd4WHaIPA

Sorry, I may need to correct myself here.

The government report states:
"Latest figures show that almost 400,000 pupils miss 15% of schooling a year - the equivalent of having a month off school."

So if a month is 15% - a fortnight would be about 7.5% and a week would be about 3-4%. Is this how they've defined it...?

I was an army brat and moved around constantly - 8 schools altogether. I did ok, not as well as I could have done but I firmly put that down to a total lack of support or concern from parents. Never asked about homework or offered to help as far as they were concerned it was completely the schools concern and nothing to do with them. They had no understanding of them actually having a part to play.

I just do not agree that before GCSE years that the occasional holiday effects anything in the long term and as such I take dd out for a fortnight each year. Sometimes the whole lot in one go or two one weekers.

I am actually really about the strength of opinion against it on here tbh, I have never come across that in RL.

There are 190 teaching days in a school year, aren't there? So 15% is 28.5 days.

A week is about 2.5%, a fortnight is 5.25%. (I rounded to the nearest 0.25, hence the slight difference - and if I'm wrong about the 190 days, then I'm talking even more rubbish than usual anyway.)

I'd have thought for someone to miss 15%, they'd either have to be badly ill, to go overseas to see family or something for an extended time, or to be a serial truanter. Probably not that many are also in the same group of people who also take a week out for termtime holidays, I would have thought. (But I may be totally wrong.)

Those of you who think it's fine to take your dc on holiday in term time, do you think there should be no rule at all - I.e. anyone could take their dc out of school any time in the year for a holiday? For as long as they like? If not, what would the rule be? Every child allowed two weeks out each year? So you would most likely never have a class without a bunch of absentees who need to be caught up by the teacher afterwards. A bit chaotic.

I missed an entire termand a half of year 8 (due to bullying - I wish I'd been on holiday!) and didn't do any catch up work (I was never sent any) and no-one home educated me either.

In the long term it never made any difference. I got 10 GCSEs all with grades ranging from A* to B.

I was never taken out for a holiday- my parents wouldn't have even considered it.

Didn't go on holiday in term time as far as I can remember

Went on holidays abroad once every two years from 12 until 18 so 4 times!

Have taken my children out of school for holidays while they were in primary school

Ds1 is now in year 10 and I have only taken him out of school for three days, that was in year 9 and there are no plans to take him out again

Dd and ds2 may miss a week of school next October (2015) haven't decided yet

holmes just seen your question

I have never and would never take my children out for longer than a week in primary school. In senior school it would depend on the circumstances of the holiday to be honest, it's not something I would do as a matter of course

If there was to be rules I would say that no more than a week and at a suitable time, for example the last week of the summer term. I don't yo be honest know that many people who take their children out of school

We were taken out for 3 weeks every June in primary and never missed anything. I think for under 12's it's far more important to experience other cultures than be at school. I have taken mine out at least once a year and will continue to to so. School targets are not my concern, my children's experiences are!

We never were taken out in term time. But I feel so sad my dc will probably never go abroad until they finish school at 16/18. Because the prices are so high I can't imagine us ever being able to afford it in school holidays. I think that is really detrimental to them. It's especially annoying when all they do is watch films and faff about in the last week of term.

do you think there should be no rule at all

I do think there should be rules and guidelines, but there should be more room for the discretion and judgement of the headteacher than there is with the current rules - i.e. more like it used to be.

You can experience other cultures in the holidays though so it's not really that you are providing a better education than those who send their children to school for the whole year.

Although I see your point about tbe cost fluter.

I know what you mean about the last week of term, but don't you think that holiday companies and airlines would cotton on pretty quickly and put the prices up at those times if everyone started being allowed to take their dc out then?