Dd is just 4 (last week) and can read dick all, she starts reception in Sept...

[handlemecarefully]

Will she really be reading a bit by the end of Reception? I find it hard to imagine...

She seems like a bright enough girl (enquiring mind, good memory, intelligent questions about the world around her)

they're moving TOWARDS phonics .. which is actually a fabulous way of teaching reading (rather than memorising words by rote it gives them the building blocks to be able to read properly)

you don't wait till your child can read to start teaching them about other things

My Dd2 is 5 in oct and can't read either. My dd1 is 6 and still on the lowest band of reading. But my Ds is 8 and has a reading age of a 12 yr old. I'm not worried.

Sorry electrica, just reread my post and it is a bit waspish (no sleep!). It's just a different point of view, that's all.

Np Greensleeves- I understand what you're saying. I agree that there are different types of learning, I suppose I've always had a traditional 'academic' style so maybe thats influenced me. I'm hoping to also teach the sprog all the other important kid things like climbing trees and making pasta paintings!!

I wrote aqueduct to start- you know when something doesn't look right? lol! I blame preggo brain!

Twiglett I think phonics and phonetics are different- phonetics doesnt really work with the English language very well because its based on sounds and how we write them (eg ph sounds like f), and English is a very irregular language and a lot of it doesnt fit into that framework, whereas something like Spanish would as its very regular. A primary school teacher friend of mine told me about phonics and it made more sense as its based around learning the different formations, although I can't recall exactly how it works.

Ultimately I don't think there's a right or wrong way to get kids learning or a right or wrong level of involvement, its what we feel comfortable with.

Did you see the 'admission impossible' prog? There were some scary parents on that!

My boys were taught using synthetic phonics, the school used it way before the government got on the bandwagon. The phonics approach uses combinations of letters for different sounds and they also just learn the words that dont fit in. Both read really well. DS2 who is in reception reads simple books, signs headlines etc etc. DS1 is about 2 years ahead at 7. However, when we get too smug we remember my DH couldnt read at all at 7 and he did OK, they all get there in the end

I missed the admission impossible programme (damn!), does anyone fancy giving me a quick synopsis?

Quick synopsis:

Lovely single mum with cute but disruptive kid wants her sone recognised as G&T, wins scholarship but has to go (literally) to No 10 for the rest of the fees for his special school.
(non scary)

Middle class couple who fear effects on bright but not exceptional daughter of inner city comp consider turning catholic in bid to get her into decent school
(reasonably scary but understand their gripe)

Pushy asian 'competititive dad' puts bright child through two years of tutoring in order to get into grammar school as he fears that Asian child will be disciminated against later in life and must therefore be the best. Asisan child expresses view that if you go to a state school you don't end up being a very good person. Luckily he gets into Wellington or he would probably be subjected to 7 years of arsekicking at local comp.
(v scary- dad from hell)

Eek, the last one sounds a bit much! I hope they repeat it, it sounds interesting

Thanks electrica

My DD was completely clueless with reading when she started reception but loved making up stories and being read to . She was pretty rubbish at the whole thing until the January of Year 1 when suddenly she suddenly practically overnight got the whole thing and she really took off reading everything in sight. She got one of the highest marks in the SATs in her class apparently so a late start hasn't held her back in the slightest.

I really rate the Jolly phonics system (to my suprise !) as it has given her the basic building blocks to be work out words that I thought she had no chance of getting.

I could read fluently at 3 and before I started infant school at 4 the headmistress said to my mother "you mothers, your child recognises a word or two and you think that they can read". Mum asked said head teacher to hand me anything off her desk to test me out and headmistress went very quiet. I spent a miserable time at that school, they had a very strange tiered system where the class was made up of 3 different age groups and I could do the work of the eldest children on day one. For 3 years I sat whilst the class did the same flashcards every Wednesday that I had read on the first day, never suggesting that I brought in a book from home or found me any extra work. As a result I have not pushed my 4 year old to read although she likes the phonics books (incidentally I was never pushed to learn by Mum) and she will start school next month on a level playing field with her classmates. I also would not send her the local school which is trying vertical streaming out. As you can gather,my experiences of infant school stay with me to this day and I will do all I can to avoid my children going through this.

Electricia (and everyone else)- have you heard of the spalding method for teaching pre-schoolers reading? It's sort of extended phonics.

MG, lanM you sound like a child prodigy!

meant OMG, not MG, sorry!

I am a reception teacher and mother and I think you guys are all getting far too hung up on the academic side of things. In most of Europe children don't start any formal learning i.e. letters or numbers until the age of 7 and studies have shown that within six months the children have caught up with or surpassed ours. What is the big rush in England? Children need lots of positve playful experiences including sharing books with their parents in a fun and relaxed way and they will be learning heaps - naturally. When children are pushed they develop negative associations. For example, children need to develop their muscles through large scale movements such as using a climbing frame or building with blocks, before they can develop the finer muscle movements required for writing. If you try to get a child to hold a pencil before they have developed physcially it will hurt them to use it for any length of time. They will then associate writing with pain and, understandably, go off it. They also need to develop a wider understanding of books, stories and characters before you can hope for them to decode the text. They need also to develop the concentration skills to want to sit and try and read. Children learn best given the opportunity and space to play and explore and lead the way themselves with adults there to support them.

I haven't heard of that method, but I know very little about phonics.

i dont get the reading thing
once you read oyu read
fgs

veritaserum - love your comments. That's exactly what I have been taught and naturally feel. Am a bit worried about putting my ds into reception class here at 4 1/2 and thinking of leaving him in nursery until he's 5 if he's happy with that. I expect to be leaving England just after he turns five anyway. What do you think? Are English reception teachers taught to think like you do or are you a bit different??

hi

i am a reception teacher and haven't read all the thread so hope i dont repeat everything everyone else had said.

Most children who enter my school can recognise a few letters by sound/name, recognise their own name and maybe some familiar words like mummy for example. They might also write their own name, do simple drawings, count to 5. simple things really.

we also have some children who can do lots more and some who do lots less.

The reception year is all about teaching them basic skills and it is not unusual for children to leave my class not reading fluently - although most of them can read a simple book and write a sentence by the end of the year.

I often find it simpler with the children who come knowing very little as we can just start from the beginning, getting them to pronounce letters correctly, teaching reading skills such as sounding oout and blending rather than geussing at words and memorising sight words etc.

So to be honest, the children who arrive and we are told "oh, she can already read and write, you know" we spend ages getting them out of bad habits and IME they can end up making less and slower progress than ones who started at a lower point so to speak.

sorry rant over

so yes she'll probably be able to read a bit by the end of reception but if not don't worry - she'll get it when she's ready.

From another perspective, gingernutlover, as the parent of a child who began reading at 3 (without being pushed or hothoused - I don't believe in it and wouldn't know how) it is very irritating to be rebuked by reception teachers for "teaching them bad habits" and told that we should not have allowed him to learn at his own rate because it makes their job more difficult.

Not a simple issue with one "right" view, IMO.

"From another perspective, gingernutlover, as the parent of a child who began reading at 3 (without being pushed or hothoused - I don't believe in it and wouldn't know how) it is very irritating to be rebuked by reception teachers for "teaching them bad habits" and told that we should not have allowed him to learn at his own rate because it makes their job more difficult."

oh, dear I didnt mean to offend but obviously have. I have a habit of not saying things how i really mean them.

I did not mention pushing or hothousing and didnt accuse anyone especially you of doing that, sorry if you took offence. And believe me I have nothing against children learning at their own rate.

I am sorry if you have been "rebuked " by your childs reception teacher - I would never ever do this. I apologise if you thought I was rebuking you.

I never said that bad habits in reading made my job harder - only meant that the childrens progress CAN be smoother and quicker when they come to us without many reading skills. Teaching these children is simpler - but not easier!

And lastly - no, my job is not easy. If i wanted an easy job I would not be a teacher.

Apologies in advance if i have just offended another 10 Mnetters in thew writing of this post

Well, things have changed a lot over the past few years and I think things are swinging to a more child-led approach, especially in the early years. The foundation stage curriculum is pretty good (that is for nursery and reception children).
I would like to say that I don't feel I underestimate the importance of the parents in the whole learning process -let's not forget they are their child's first and most important teacher - their imput is crucial in my experience. Teachers can't teach them to read in the time we have in school. The children need loads of sharing books time with their parents - both encouraging them to have a go on their own or tell you about the pictures etc. and time with you reading to them just for the pleasure of it. I think what sometimes happens when children start reading is that the parents think they don't still want to be read to. It is always nice to be read to. I still like it when my husband reads to me! Also, they won't always want to read the next level of book - we all like to read easy stuff too - that's what trashy magazines are for. What is important is that a love of reading and books is developed. And, don't forget, reading a comic can be just as challenging as a school reading book, if not more so.

OCD - hair hair.
I suspect that both the ayes and nays in this discussion have had an easy time at reading themselves.
I'd be really interested to hear from someone who struggled with reading.

I have no problems with reading at all (except for stopping in time to get some sleep!) but the majority of boys in my family have quite severe dyslexia, and I wonder if my ds has a touch too (waiting to find a good assessment centre to have a gander at him) so I am very reluctant to push him. My brother and nephew found early reading very difficult, and I would hate to put ds off because reading is a very fundamental part of who I am (and my family is on the academic side) and I would like to share this with both children. However I think his main problem is that he isn't very interested in sounding things out - he prefers to go for the early guess, and who cares if it completely screws up the meaning!

Sorry if my post came across as a bit strong gingernutlover - it was meant as an alternative perspective to the one you offered, not as an attack.

While I have some reservations about some reception teachers' attitudes to children who start school already reading/writing/doing basic maths - I do agree with veritaserum that on the whole the Foundation Stage curriculum is excellent. I have been delighted with my son's 5-mornings-a-week nursery school so far - it has been a lovely gentle child-centred and stimulating start to his education which I feel very grateful for. I hope when he starts reception next September things will be equally positive, but I am a bit concerned about the "bad habits" thing - there's not a lot I can do about the fact that he can read!

I think it takes a while to get out of the mindset of worrying about how your child is doing in relation to others of the same age. "Shouldn't he/she be crawling by now?" "Why isn't he eating solids like the others?" "Why isn't he walking by 12 months?" "Why isn't he potty trained by 2?" and so on right up to reception at primary school when you see other kids of the same age who can read a book aimed at 6 yr olds with no problem.

My DS could read virtually nothing at the start of reception and virtually nothing at the end of it. This summer, at the end of Yr 1 his reading is a lot better but not what I would call totally fluent. He quite likes reading - in school, not so much at home - but really loves writing. His spelling is crap but the point is he loves doing it. he loves making up stories and writing them down. So I encourage him to do it, when he wants to. I fully expect by the end of yr 2 he will be a fluent reader on a par with or better than most of his class. But if he's not, he'll be there in yr 3. And I fully expect that by then end of his formal schooling, he will be a happy young man, confident in his abilities and fulfilled in his learning. Because his teachers encourage what he is keen to learn and his pace and so do I. My proudest moment at parents' evening was when his teacher told me how pleased she was with his enthusiasm and interest in learning. And we both were thrilled when he labelled the nose cone of his rocket "noas coan" beacuse it showed he'd understood phonics. He'll come to the correct spelling later but there was no way I or she was going to rain on his parade and correct something that he'd thought through himself.

Children have enough pressure on them at high school with exam after exam. Primary school should be about making friends, finding your place in your peer group and becoming a confident, rounded child. So please don't worry about exactly when and at what age she should read. She'll work that one out herself, with your and her teachers' encouragement.

Sorry about typos, I really am an excellent speller honest!