SEN classification and schools - a warning

[Sherlock]

Hi everyone. From reading through the topic lists, I know that you have talked about special educational needs (SEN) children before, some of you have or know SEN chidren, and some of you are teachers. I'm starting this as a new topic because my experience and resulting opinion has not been covered here before. It may shock.

My 8 year old son is in year three of his primary school. We moved house early last year which necessitated a change of school. Both schools are in the state sector and in the same borough. School number one does not perform will in ofsted tests. School two (his current school) has an excellent ofsted record.

At school one he was firmly classified SEN because of his behavior, not his academic ability, which is average to bright. At school number two he is firmly classified as 'normal' and they took him off the SEN list within weeks of him arriving. Why is this? - the reasons appear to be rather murky.

Ds has always been a lively handful. This has been recognised by every teacher and carer. He is not agressive, but can be inattentive and silly in class.

SEN classification has five stages. 1 is the least serious, 'monitoring' stage. 5 is the most serious stage. At the end of year 1, his teacher put ds on level 1 SEN. I trusted the teacher's judgement and felt grateful that the school had picked up this problem and would be giving ds extra attention. Over half his class we were told were SEN in some way, so no stigma was attached to the label.

During year 2 I had some mild concerns about my son's behaviour at home. At a parent's meeting I brought up the subject with his class teacher. By coincidence, this teacher is a friend of dh's. In her capacity as teacher, she said my son could be hard work, but her was popular, bright and enthusiatic. His behaviour fell well within the normal spectrum in every way. So, imagine my surprise when just a week later I was called in to see the school's SEN coordinator who told me she was moving my son up to level 2 SEN! I queried this at length, especially since his own form teacher had just said he was 'normal'. From age 6 to age 7 I felt my son's behaviour was improving, not deteriorating. The SEN coordinater told me he had spoken to my son't teacher and they had agreed to the new classification. I was worried that 'SEN 2' on my son's school record would afect his chances of getting into our chosen, over-subscribed secondary school. I was told not to worry about this at all.

When my son moved schools, I had it firmly in my mind that he was SEN and told the school of his problems. After just four weeks of teaching him, I was informed that he had been watched by their special needs assessor,as well as his teachers and as a result, he would be declassified immediately. In other words he was a normal, naughty at times, little boy. His teachers also talked about unpicking all the bad work that was the result of his previous schooling.

Since his year 2 teacher was a friend of ours, I queried this with her privately. She said my son had never EVER been SEN and was only on the list because the school was due another Ofsted inspection and the head was worried about hitting targets. Having pupils on the SEN list meant the school was excused poor performance and had lower targets set.

Is SEN classification purely for the child's benefit then? Not so, it now seems to me. This is awful.

From asking around, it seems that SEN behavoiur classification on a shool record COULD do a prospective applicant no favours when secondary school choices loom. Well behaved and 'good' children will, when push come to shove, get a better chance of entering an oversubscribed secondary. Is this really true?

If so, this means my son's old school is knowingly sabotaging the future chances of its pupils, in order to keep the ofsted inspectors happy. I think this is outrageous.

I have been told, off the record, by an SEN teacher never to trust the SEN classification given via a school. Apparently you should visit an educational psychologist privately and take their findings to the school. What IS going on here?

This sounds outrageous! I know a SEN co-ordinator, will ask about it if I can and report back.

As a mother of a toddler, does this really start so young....

Within my workplace I've just been through about 8 months of Interim/Annual Appraisals, grievance meetings due to my dissatisfaction about seemingly unecessary re-deployment (firstly about 2 members of staff I 'HR administer' then they did it to me - all legally and within Union guidelines). The outcome has been the same for all of us who dared to say we were not happy with comments/scoring marks on Appraisals, ie politely 'shut up and put up, past is not our concern' (although it's very much our own because of applying for other roles within the organisation after closure/integration). Finally we're left now with the fact that AFTER all this Appraisal c*, for the first time, NO annual bonus will be paid to the vast majority of original staff. My own role profile seems to 'mis-match' the two Bank's profiles so I've been marked on the down-side rather than the plus - which obviousley means that I won't even reach a cost of living pay increase this year, which I see as a NEGATIVE as I'm worse off than last year - after all food prices go up! Watch the Group profit announcement on 28 Feb.

I really do think that at the end of the day each business (School as the case in this topic) has it's own Agenda and that in some cases performance does not come into the scheme or marking of things, it all depends on who or what is above you and what their criteria is........

Does this make sense. If I wrote exactly what I mean a) I would be mentioning company names and b) it would end up as long as your Aunties Bloomers..... In fact I'm so p*** off with the lot of them that I don't mind telling you all...

Oh, mommy. mommy, mommy! You have all my sympathy! Am in the midst of similar st myself at work. Nothing more designed to make you HATE your boss, HATE your job, HATE ALL your line management and thoroughly, thoroughly demotivate you. But then, isn't that what they want? Hidden agendaist (made up word?) b**s!

Sherlock - I was really interested to read your comments. Your son's behaviour sounds very similar to my eldest ds (aged 5). I have noticed a real difference in teachers' attitudes towards his behaviour in different schools (ie. at his first school it was seen as abnormal (didn't go so far as saying he had special needs, but I suspect it may have happened if we'd stayed) whereas at his current school it is seen as normal, naughty/silly behaviour). Like your son, he is also very bright. I'm glad that your son is now doing well at his new school, but like you, I'm totally horrified that his old school was abusing the use of the SEN classification for their own purposes. I always thought that there must be some strictly set guidelines which must be followed before a child is labelled as having special needs, not just down to one particular teacher's personal view, am I wrong? Can anyone enlighten us? Thanks!

I think one of the problems is that the kinds of things your boys might have been put on the SEN register for are to a certain extent subjective- behaviour related reasons are notoriously so, for example. One persons "slightly naughty" is another persons "behavioural problem" as we see constantly on Mumsnet discussions about our kids' behaviour. In a way I'm not too surprised by Sherlock's comments though it still shocks me how very badly SEN is managed in many schools.

Hi again. It's been great to read your stuff. Thanks for taking the time to reply. Wickedwaterwitch, I'd love to hear what your friend has to say about this. Is there a link between SEN classfication and Ofsted performance targets? Do badly performing schools have a hidden agenda, putting any child with the mildest problem on the SEN list? Is this happening all over the country? Before any teacher steps in to tell me, I already know that there's lots of time-consuming paperwork involved in SEN classification. Therefore a teacher wouldn't want to do this - unless pushed.

Chanelno5, like you, I always thought that the criteria for SEN behaviour would be similar at each school. I think it is very worrying that it is not. If your child is SEN, it's bound to colour your attitude to their behavour and how you cope with it. Also, if the child knows they are SEN - and this fact is very hard to keep from them - they will see themselves as a 'problem'. Being labelled as naughty can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Of course, as Scummymummy said, judging what is unacceptable behavour is subjective. However, isn't this abilty to make the right judgement central to the training of any SEN co ordinator, if not the teacher? I have to say that my son's year two teachers (I asked more than one, including a very senior member of staff) in private were unanimous in feeling that he was not SEN. They admited they were under pressure from the head to add children to the SEN list. I assume the head also has authority over SEN coordinators, so ultimiately the head pulls the strings.

I would dearly love to know if the SEN classification has an adverse effect on secondary school selection. I know few secondary school terachers, but the few I have talked to have said it's good that you got SEN off his record pronto.

If you decide to enter your bright but 'SEN behavour' child for a scholorship, or a place at any over-subscribed state or private school, will they stand the same chance of success as an equally bright but not 'SEN behaviour' child? From the knowledge I have gleaned so far, I think I know what the answer is. I'd love to be proved wrong.

Incidently, the reason I am using the internet and not making a direct complaint to my LEA, MP or local newspaper, is because I do not want to upset my son. He has had nearly a year at a new school, he's settled in very well and I want him to move forward. But a part of me is hopping mad about this and I still wonder how many other pupils at my son's former school are wrongly labelled SEN.

Sherlock, I have just received a reply from a friend of mine who works in this very field. I sent her your original query and this is what she had to say.I have not altered any of it, I hope it makes sense and is of some use. Best wishes.

"Well, where do you start. I am so glad we are in the Scottish system which has comprehensive education for all. The league tables are a pile of shite and yes that is the technical name for it. It seems that there has been alot of strange and conflicting advice given. The poor woman must be off her head trying to fathom what the levels of SEN are. After reading I am no clearer. She really needs to confront the issue with the school the child is presently at and ask to see her child's file to see what has been logged. If I am right (could be a little off here) but I think the parent can add to that file by a report or ask for a subsequent report to be written stating the improvement qt any length he is still pretty young and it is really the last few years in primary that matter. I know certainly up here if there is a major behavioural problem, that is dealt by myself and the outreach team as well as the E. B D units. For transition to secondary the children are monitored by the secondary guidance or sen or some specialist support within the secondary school. This support is open to all children with difficulties if they are picked up in ps. These files are updated on a regular basis and adapted for individual education programmes to aid the child's learning. They also go into primary schools in the last term of the session and shadow and get to know the children concerned. It really is all about inclusion. This would be an ideal lever for that parent to use to get her child in the school she wants.

I have no idea what happens down south but that woman deserves to be heard and her concerns acknowledged. "

Jasper, sorry I have taken so long to get back to you. Thanks so much for contacting your friend about this. The more opinions I hear about this, the more justified I feel in getting angry. My anger is now less on my son't behalf but rather for all the the other children at his old school.

My son is continuing to do well at his new school, and his behaviour in school and out of it is improving all the time. This school expects a high standard of behaviour, and teachers are both strict and attentive to ensure all pupils behave well. My son is still prone to bouts of 8 year-old silliness but that's not a worry to me.

I really appreciated the messages here. And, if anyone is ever in my situation of distrusting the school's SEN classification for their child - please do query it. If my expereince is anything to go from, schools vary enormously in their views and ways of tackling the problem.

Just had to say I agree with what Jasper's friend says - thank goodness I teach and have kids in Scotland. Here the SEN classification is made by an educational psychologist employed by the local council's education departmet, so it is not up to individual schools to decide this. In fact, there can sometimes be problems getting a child recorded as having SEN as the council then has to pay extra money to the school for that child, although this is not a common problem where I live.
The problem (as I always see it) is the inspection process. If it is so easy to change the way an ofsted (or, up here, and HMI) inspector views the school then there is something badly wrong. What are they looking for anyway - as far as I can tell it always seems to be exam results (although, once again, the only inspection I have ever been through was in Scotland and was a very positive experience for staff as the inspectors were so helpful and gave loads of advice on how we could do things better even though we got a very good report).
I always KNEW I was sensible to stay up here (LOL). Now I am ever surer!!!