A levels - two sciences, two humanities - is this ok

[NorthernLebkuchen]

Dd1 is planning to take:

History

English Literature

Chemistry

Biology

She is a high achieving all rounder (lucky her) and tbh could have taken any of her GCSE subjects on. This is her pick and I thought it looked very balanced and sound. She isn't sure about university yet - may want to do a History based course or may go for something like Biomedical sciences. For the latter the two sciences she's taking will be fine for university entry.

BUT - just seen on another thread a comment that two and two like this isn't advised. Why would that be? Is that the case?

Can somebody reassure me that this isn't a problem?

MilyMolly, perhaps you missed the info that I am a chemist? (Ie have a degree and PhD in chemistry, but taught chemistry to pharmacy degree students). DP teaches maths to first year biomedical scientists - the level of the stuff they cover starts not assuming more than gcse grade c in maths.

I have interviewed hundreds on UCAS applicants over the years. No discrimination was made against those without a'level maths, unlike a lack of a'level chemistry. Many, many scientists will not have A'level maths.

The rain for the lack of requirement for a'level maths is because most will pick up the relevant bits, which mostly requires having a 'feel' for numbers and being numerate rather than requiring detailed pure maths. The most useful part of the maths and stats I use as a scientist was learned during or after my PhD whilst carrying out research, not at school. This is because the stuff I learned later was much more specific and relevant. There are great swathes of maths at A'Level which most chemists or BMS students will never find an application for.

*rain= reason

Magrat, you have just got used to compensating for mathematically illiterate applicants, the remedial maths course your DP runs is just one example of this.

ACME did a report about this in 2011, the mathematical needs of university courses compared to their entry requirements
www.acme-uk.org/media/7624/acme_theme_a_final%20(2).pdf
they specifically look at the maths involved in chemistry and biosciences at Uni and it is clear that although post-16 maths isn't a requirement, it would be an advantage.

Their recommendation that all students should study maths in some form post-16 is being taken seriously
www.gov.uk/government/news/new-maths-qualifications-to-boost-numbers-studying-maths-to-age-18
and current students should be aware that they will probably be competing in later years against younger students who are more mathematically qualified than them.

I found with biology science degrees you very quickly need at least a working knowledge of statistics and probability otherwise you can't access the subjects such as higher level genetics and you are just learning a lot of facts as in A level biology

noble, all students even those who took a'level maths are expected to take his first year maths module.

One point of entry requirements is that they usually (in the main) cater for ensuring capability of study at a certain level. Most first year university modules are only around A'level difficulty. The reason for this is that when teaching cohorts of 200+ there will be such a diversity of experience from students that very little is assumed. One of the subjects I taught at first year was biochemistry and it would be guaranteed half the cohort had taken A level biology and thought they already knew it (different to actually knowing it and usually required lots of misconceptions to be addressed), whilst the other half had not done A level biology, but still needed to be taught those basics. Ensuring the relevant basics are re-covered at university is necessary as it allows misconceptions to be addressed and students to settle into university style teaching and learning (very different in style to school) before moving onto more challenging material.

Exactly Noble. Could not agree more. There should not be a need for remedial maths. Students should be prepared for all aspects of the course, therefore maths is preferable although a necessity and more students are recognising the value of having it.

It is not a 'remedial' maths course, but a compulsary module to ensure coverage of the bits of maths which are relevant. Much of pure maths is not relevant, but many things which are relevant are not covered at A level. The most widely used statistical techniques used in my field (and dp's too) are not covered at school and are unlikely to be covered anytime soon.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9420771/Top-universities-forced-to-introduce-remedial-maths-classes.html

If the starting point is C grade GCSE maths, then it is hard to argue that it is not to make up for a lack of mathematical literacy in undergraduates.

Magrat thank you for your perspective. It's very helpful to read about what you've seen and done. Clearly the whole maths issue is a bit of a 'hot potato'

DH is a scientist, having read natural sciences at university. He did 3 science A levels, and a language A level for fun, and would have hated maths. For those like him doing natural sciences who didn't have maths A level (and there were many) there were different maths lectures, so that they had what they needed for the science side. Definitely not remedial, just different.

Interesting. However, I would say that this is not maths specific. There were constant discussions at my old institution that science A'levels did not adequately prepare students for degree level study and discussions were ongoing to hold summer courses to bridge the gap between where A'level left students and where academics expected to be able to pick up. However, in general, most first year courses are no higher than A level, aiming to bring a whole cohort to the same level in the relevant subjects across the board.

Further, the necessity to re-teach some material also comes from the fact that in some areas GCSE and A level curricula are simplified to the point of being wrong. It can be quite a job for academics to re-teach some misconceptions held as a result of this.

DD does maths, physics, geography and English lit. She is considered a little odd by her fellow students, but no one else seems to worry!

The Big problem is the way the A-level system expects a narrow focus; it's not fit for purpose to prepare for modern university study, especially relatively interdisciplinary subjects. I heard recently from people teaching medicine & geography: they would like to see better ICT skills & statistics knowledge in Freshers. The A-level system would be better modified to be broader & less specialised. OP's DD doesn't want to narrow options already, and why should she have to?

Thatnks lljkk - yes it is frustrating. I think if dd goes in to a scientific career she will be as well served by being able to analyse events and formulate an argument as much as be being able to balance an equation.

It's fine for most of the none science careers, all those companies in the City recruiting, the leading advertising companies, the law firms. They would like the history and English (as lots of words in many of those careers and good English essential) and think the science ones are great too. One of mine did physics, chemistry, economics and geography (now a lawyer) - I cannot remember now which one she dropped for upper sixth.