£150m for kitchens

[ipadquietly]

...when teachers and TAs are taking over OT, speech and language and physio services due to lack of professionals
... when schools can't afford an extra TA to deal with a child who is biting, kicking and spitting
... when statemented children are relying on TA support ONLY, with no therapists or psychologists available to guide them through their screwed up childhoods
... when maintenance on schools will suffer due to the building of KITCHENS!
... when no research has been done by the government to find out if parents even want their children to have school meals. (In our sandwich only school, only 30% of parents showed an interest in their children having school meals.)

These people are absolute IDIOTS. They want to feed first-world children and close their eyes to the rotten, screwed up society they are creating.

or more to the point,
it shows how utterly out of touch the "political class" are that they did not realise that many schools do not have kitchens.

They assumed that everywhere was like their prep schools where everybody sits down to two courses with grace beforehand.

It's two separate points, really.

There are some children who, unfortunately, are so challenging that it is near on impossible to find proper support for in schools. In dd's school there is a huge turnover of such people. Let's face it, it's quite an isolated and boring job, being with one child, day in, day out. It would be with any child, regardless of whether they have SN. One particular child has global needs and has high-level support (not just a TA). Even with funding in place, it is very, very difficult to find continuity of support.

If there is sufficient money I would support kitchens, actually. And I would support two courses (minus the grace) eaten using cutlery properly and with good table manners. And I've never been near a prep school.

They assumed that everywhere was like their prep schools

I haven't seen this announcement but if they made that assumption they would allocate far more money. The figure mentioned equates to just over £6,000 per school which appears to show that they know that many schools don't have kitchens and that many of the kitchens that do exist are in good repair. And are we really saying that we must allow school kitchens (where they exist) to fall into disrepair until we've fixed every other problem in the education system (assuming we can even agree what those problems are)?

You can't have it both ways. You can't be outraged that kids are being fed microwaved reconstituted turkey twister shit AND be outraged that they are installing kitchens to feed kids proper food that has actually been cooked.

And you may give your kids guacamole sandwiches but for many kids what they eat at school is literally their only food if the day.

So take your faux outrage somewhere else I say.

Found the announcement now. It is a natural consequence of the introduction of free school meals for all infants. If they don't do this the free school meals can't happen. And having seen the announcement I realise Talkinpeace may be talking about the free school meals policy rather than this funding, in which case I apologise. But I stand by my view that it is wrong to say that we can't extend free school meals unless we've fixed all the other problems in schools.

And how do they think they are going to get the likes of my DD2 to eat these free meals.

If as a parent with every possible carrot and stick at my disposal and two hours to spare on a weekend lunch time, I cannot get DD2 to try anything she doesn't like or let a sip of water past her lips. I don't see how school can.

Try inviting all her mates for lunch, Bunny. It's amazing what my kids will eat at school because their mates are eating it. Cabbage! Curry! Will they eat it at home? Will they faffalon!

I've just come back from the DCs school, where I was setting up a santa's grotto. There were 30 kids from the nursery sitting eating lunch as I went through the dining room. Each class was eating with their teacher. They were learning to sit, use cutlery, clear their plates, talk nicely- all important social skills.

I'm not saying I wouldn't try to fix all the other problems as well; but research has shown that all children benefit when everyone eats lunch together. So it may not be obvious but there will be an educational benefit for everyone.

I wish, she is 12 now and slightly getting better, but she is beyond stubborn.

The only time she was sensible about food was her one day at week at nursery, but nursery had amazing home cooked food and no nutritional guidelines insisting they stuffed it full of things DCs hate and make it for 50p a portion.

I'm sure the group atmosphere and the lovely staff helped. It was a million miles from school dinner and mrs grumpy in a pink coat.

A DF admitted to calling her shepherds pie, nursery pie in the hope her DD would eat it.

We cannot have a meals policy based on the dislikes of a few children though, can we? . Again it comes down to the problem parents who just put a bag of crisps and a kit kat in the lunchbox after not providing any breakfast. This policy should have been targeted at schools with the greatest need, not every school. No-one ever gathers information about deprivation in a meaningful way so we just spend money where it is not needed and therefore waste it.

Actually though I do not see anything wrong with children having a proper mealtime like prep schools! Why not? Why is this something just for the wealthier children? Mealtime in school is not a class issue. It should be for everyone to gain from and enjoy, irrespective of background.

There are far more important things to spend money on: professional support services, school maintenance (and building), therapy for young, needy children. Many, many more children these days have social and developmental problems (for whatever reasons) and are in desperate need for early intervention.

My school has no kitchen. It has no room for a kitchen. (The kitchen was replaced by an ICT suite.) It has no dishwasher. It has no staff to serve the meals. It has no crockery or cutlery.

'Giving infants meals' is easy to say. I'm wondering who will stump up the cost for dishwashers, extra staff (+ extra hours), cutlery and crockery. I bet I can guess. Great news for our deficit budget.

We are not the only school in the area in this position.

Sheer madness.

Um Celestial actually it's a minority of children where a school dinner (as shit as they generally are) is their only meal.

Sooooo spending this amount of millions to feed the few that need it is utterly ludicrous.

At our school the award winning dinners (which are utter shite - minced grey fish fingers,chips and custard biscuit) start to run out by the time KS 2 start to eat.

Seriously hope the kids in KS 2 that actually need it get their full quota of chips after the Tarquin's in KS1 have had their free fill.

Utter bonkers.

Ipad lets not forget the staff to cook,serve and the electricity etc.Hope the education budget is going to go up to cover the higher bills.

I also hope those of us left paying for school dinners aren't going to be penalised.Our school dinners are having a price hike next year- funny that.

Soooo basically not only will ks2 get smaller portions because of the huge increase in uptake in KS1(it's bad enough already), we'll be paying for the crappier service!

Agreed retro
School down the road has started shipping in meals - appalling take-up and runs out of food after feeding KS1.
We are a first world country, and not many children go hungry.

Any neglected children should be identified and supported by social, psychological and psychiatric support agencies. At the moment, these services are failing miserably due to cuts in funding and low morale, and school staff (often with no training) are increasingly required to step in.

What a bloody mess.
What a load of tossers.

Starball , my friend is TA to a 4 year old child who will only eat sausages and pasta at home, but who eats everything at school (French school lunch so 3 courses and plenty of vegetables).

Children mostly behave very differently at home and at school. DD2 for example is a paragon of cleanliness and earns the plaudits of loads of her teachers for her efforts to keep her 6th form common room and kitchen clean and tidy. If they could see her bedroom at home on any day they would laugh.

Agree ipad they are indeed a load of tossers. No money for SEN, no money for arts ed, but plenty of money to essentially buy nasty cheap meat and cheese from Tory party supporters and force it on kids. Vegetarian and vegan children will not be catered for. Kids with allergies cannot be catered for, and most kids don't need free school meals. But all will have them forced upon them (and funding from things they might need snatched away) all so the Tories can push the supply business to their supporters.

all so the Tories can push the supply business to their supporters

This is a LibDem policy which the Tories oppose but have accepted as the price of getting the married couples tax allowance. And it will, of course, be up to LAs where they place the business.

Vegetarian and vegan children will not be catered for. Kids with allergies cannot be catered for

Evidence? Schools generally do cater for vegetarian and vegan children and also cater for most allergies.

No money for SEN

School funding for England includes £5 billion for high needs pupils out of total schools spending of £38 billion.

no money for arts ed

Nor indeed any money for any other subject. That isn't how school funding works. Of course, LAs have specific responsibilities around provision of music services, visual and performing arts for maintained schools.

I personally oppose this policy but, if we are going to debate it, please stick to the facts rather than making things up.

I have children in 3 different schools (all in the same county/LEA obviously) and vegans are not catered for, at any of the schools, unless you count the vending machine at one school that sells plain crisps, and vegetarians are given the option of chees with cheese (but obviously not prepared away from the meat or anything sensible like that). Meat in particular is pushed at every opportunity down here (kids are even given healthy eating worksheets etc in primary school stating that it's impossible to have a healthy diet without eating meat; veggie kids are forced to pay for meat etc in cookery lessons even if they won't be using it) perhaps it's just a coincidence that the farmers all vote Tory, and the Tories only have a stranglehold on the county council as a result of the rural vote.

If you don't believed that all the supply business will be pushed towards Tory supporters then you are somewhat naive. Or maybe you think that's a fine MO.

Also arts funding is being decimated in schools, some LEAs have cut their music service to the bone (eg where I live) and SEN funding is a joke. They are currently trying to disguise the problems there by reclassifying kids out of the SEN bracket whenever they can (and ifnoring medical and ed psych diagnoses to do so) but even that isn't obliterating the shortfall.

Lets not forget either that many schools don't have libraries.

So whilst the tax payer is spending money on free food for the wealthy it old be spent on the poorest actually having access to a steady supply of books.

metebilis ahem same county/LEA I believe and all the meals at DD's school are vegetarian and locally sourced. Particular type of school of course, but still, it can be done.

I agree with you about the SEN classifications here though. Friend's son who will never live independently (severe autism and epilepsy) they attempted to unstatement and send to mainstream school when he was 11!!!

And other friends with son also very far into the ASD spectrum although not autistic had to move counties to get an appropriate education 6th form for him. Although even when they moved they had a fight on their hands and had to get expensive legal representation to achieve it.

the education budget should be used for education!

After six months, how many parents and children would actually care if all primary hot dinners disappeared?

As long as DCs can buy a sandwich, a piece of fruit and a drink if homes breads gone mouldy. No one would give a damn.

Families in real poverty should be being given help from the welfare budget.

Because I know what will happen here.
Yes the very poorest DCs will eat the school meals.
The well off and don't need them at all will eat the free school meals.

But the could do with the help, but try incredibly hard to do their best by their DCs won't. I know several utterly anal about house work, food hygiene etc DM's who wouldn't let their DCs touch school food even if it was free.

(And I'm sorry, but I know from the menu peer pressure or no peer pressure DD2 would chuck hers in the bin 3-4 days a week. She finds food boring, she doesn't always rennet to eat her lunch with long senior school days. Knowing she could grab an apple or a yoghurt at 3.40pm skipping lunch wouldn't have bother her at all. )

Remember

If you don't believed that all the supply business will be pushed towards Tory supporters then you are somewhat naïve

Knowing people of all political colours who run companies that supply schools I can assure you that your conspiracy theory is unfounded. Your chances of getting contracts are not affected by your political views. Even if they were, are you seriously suggesting that Labour and LibDem controlled councils will deliberately (and illegally) push the supply business to Tory supporters?

farmers all vote Tory

No they don't. If anything farmers tend to support the LibDems but it is by no means universal.

the tax payer is spending money on free food for the wealthy

That is why I am against the policy. I agree with the Tories that if we want to do something we should be extending FSM to low income families that don't currently qualify rather than offering universal FSM based purely on age.