To think I am unfair on Comprehensive Schools based on my own Experiences 30 years ago.

[soul2000]

A bit of a odd thread this one, but relevant to my and possibly other peoples
perceptions about comprehensive Education.

I had a "NIGHTMARE" last night , i started dreaming about things that i have blanked out that happened 30 years ago but scar me , or at least cause me to be very intransigent towards Comprehensive Education.

I am sure the Bullying and disregard that i suffered from Teachers and Pupils alike could not happen today, netherless they stay with you.

One incident that i remembered last night was as a 1st year at assembly the Deputy Head teacher asked a Question what does D Day stand for,I put my hand up and said Landing Day and that my Grandad had been at Dunkirk. The teacher started Laughing at me and said D stands for Democracy and he was not talking about Dunkirk. 200 1st and 2nd years started laughing at me
in the assembly this part of many incidents and bad experiences that have perhaps clouded my views.

The odd thing is these incidents have affected me for worse than some of the dangerous situations i have been in though my business life.

I realise that this is an odd thread and maybe should not be in this section.
There are two reasons why i have posted in this section. 1. I was actually very upset last night thinking about these incidents and others that happened to me.
2.This section has not tried to take me apart like other parts of this website.

The odd thing is these incidents have affected me far worse than some of the Dangerous situations that i have been in though out my business life.

I have just tightened up writing this and my spelling and Grammar have gone to pot,Sorry...

Hope that wasnt a history teacher as they and you were
wrong.it means nothing more than day.ie the day of the Operation.nothing to do with democracy.deliverance.doom.or anything else

I think all schools are probably a lot better than they were 30 years ago ... across the board!

My DH hated his independent school, and bases a lot of his opinions on that; i.e. definitely doesn't want our DS's to go to an all-boys selective school that focuses relentlessly on rugby and requires a commute by train so that there are few friends living nearby.

There were some dreadful teachers and experiences at my (RC girls' voluntary aided) school too.

I think both of us want something better for our kids ... in our case that will (hopefully) be a high performing inclusive comprehensive school.

I think schools generally are more caring, and there is less tolerance of sarcasm etc towards pupils.

I do think you are right however that many people have views about grammar schools & comps based on how it was 'in their day'

In Hampshire we generally have excellent comprehensive schools (no grammar schools). To be honest I don't really see why anyone would bother paying for private education round here. High expectations, low tolerance of bad behaviour etc etc.

I often see people supporting grammars because they want their children to be with others who want to succeed. But, that only works if your child is bright enough (& you can afford to tutor to pass the tests). My eldest very much wants to succeed, and tries very hard. All her friends are equally focussed. They just aren't in top sets. Determination isn't only found in brighter children.

I see very few people supporting the grammar/secondary modern system who have children in secondary modern.

I went to boarding school. I purposely stay off threads discussing the pros and cons of them, because I am very much aware that my experiences are 30 years out of date.

Propataria. If my memory serves me right, he was a "HISTORY TEACHER".

That teacher just doesn't sound very nice. But he wouldn't have been very nice, regardless of the type of school that he taught in. I think most of us can think of things where we were upset by when we were at school.

I really think you can have traumatic experiences at both comp and private schools.

I went to a very indifferent comp 30 years ago. It had been a secondary modern and my area had only gone comprehensive 5 years before I started there. So had all the same teachers and head as before it went comprehensive.

Lack of ambition pervaded the school. They had been used to warehousing DCs who would not be taking any exams and had no idea how to deal with bright kids.

Head was winding down to retirement and had no interest in raising standards. Several teachers were actually having sexual relationships with underage pupils.

Nothing was ever done, there was no process back then to deal with substandard schools. The local authority just waited for the head to retire, then replaced him with a new much improved head who set about raising standards rapidly.

I am sure this would never have been allowed to happen now. The school would have been in special measures in five minutes.

My DDs comp is light years away from my experience. I wish I could have gone to a school like it.

That said, I managed to get enough qualifications to get into a good university and become professionally qualified so it is possible to succeed in even a rubbish school like this.

Soul2000
You have raised an INCREDIBLY valid point.

How we react to schooling choices for our children and in general is incredibly influenced by what happened to us - it being the only rock solid reference point we have.

What happened to you in that assembly should never, ever have happened.
And if it did happen today, it would be all over twitter within the hour and the teacher would lose their job.

I went to a private school that happily took my parents money while neglecting to inform them that I, and nearly half the class, were bunking lessons. One girl came in about once a fortnight.
Again, that could not happen now because parents expect feedback and monitoring and there are independently produced reference tables.

DH went to a comp and he regularly comments that the celebration of excellence at DCs school is nothing like what went on in his day.

Times have changed.
Not all for the better, but mostly.

Other incidents involved me being frightened to open a oven door due to fear of being burnt in cookery. I had panic attacks and can remember being told to sit in the corridor and not disrupt the other kids , the Science Teacher calling me every name ( Think SEN) with E And S swapped, that kind of terminology was widespread in the 1980s. I was certainly one of "BORIS JOHNSONS < 85 IQ.

The three years i was there i don't think i did one piece of work, i would just sit at the back of the class keep silent and wait to 3.30 PM.

The one area where i was quite good was Sport, i was a county Hockey /200 Metre runner, ( I NEVER REPRESENTED THAT SCHOOL ONCE) . The thought of staying after 3.30 was like a Prison Sentence to me.

Soul I don't think you are being unfair as you recognise the way you perceive comprehensives and what makes you feel that way. No-one can minimise your experiences because they are yours and they had a very real effect on you.

I went to a comprehensive leaving only 10 years ago and my experience sounds similar to yours. I was exceptionally bright and modest and was scheduled to sit a number of GCSE's early due to this (before schools did this as a matter of course to spread the exam load). I will always remember in the only careers lesson we had the whole class laughing at me because I had said I wanted to be a barrister. They laughed because the teacher laughed, I don't think any of them knew what one was! It got to the point where I didn't bother going to school and lost all my momentum as it just wasn't worth being there. Although I am happy to say that is exactly the career I have now, it is despite my school not because of it.

I am not anti comprehensives though, it has just made me FAR more picky when chosing schools for my children!

You have stored one embarrassing situation for 30 years and it still affects you?

We all had good and bad experiences at school, it makes us who we are.

I went to a convent school, the Nuns were horrible and humiliated us every time we were naughty.

Forget it and move on.

Just read the post properly, sorry. scrap the last post.

I agree that our own experience of school strongly influences our views on education - perhaps disproportionately so.

However it can be about any kind of school - the fact that both of my children will go through state comprehensives has a LOT to do with H boarding from 7, and me being at an all-girls' private boarding school from 11. I didn't hate my school - in many ways I enjoyed it. Perhaps if I knew less about modern education, I might even cling to it as the 'model of academic excellence' that it was. But I live in the same town as a clone of my old school - just the unifor is a different colour - and I have no intention whatever that DD should ever darken its doors.

I went to a horrible comprehensive secondary school that was rife with bullying, indifferent teachers. Most people locally sent their kids to private school and grammars or another school up the road as this school had such a bad rep. My mum wanted me to walk to school.

I totally hated it and dont have any good memories of it. That was nearly 30 years ago. We have moved back to the same area. I said to my husband to go and see the school now with fresh eyes for our children.

He left after 10 mins. He couldnt stand the place, all the things he noted rang true and reminded me of the school 30 years ago.

Not all things change. It's strange that this school still has the same vibe!

I went to a terrible comp. Absolutely awful.

In some ways it was so awful, it was actually funny. I'm often smiling inside now when one of the parents at my DC's private schools will be regaling me with tales of supposedly dire behaviour/teaching/parenting.

I wonder what they'd make of the time a gang of glue sniffing lads at my comp had a shopping trolley race on the A1!!!!!

The young people in my family still mostly attend the same comp. And it has changed. It's not a good school, by any stretch of the imagination (though it proudly boasts and 'outstanding' badge), but it's not the Wild West it once was.

None of this says anything about particular types of school, just that given the fact that we spend most of our childhood going to school, school has a colossal effect on us. Funnily enough, laughing at children and making them feel small is not a compulsory part of comprehensive education.

It is more an aspect of education in most schools in the 80s, rabbit, and thankfully the world has moved on

Sorry you had such a horrible experience op. I went to a grammar school in the 80s and they did absolutely nothing about bullying. Big groups of girls used to gang up on individuals. Some teachers couldn't control the class at all and plenty of girls left with no qualifications
Pastoral care was non existent. Teaching was unimaginative. It would have been slated if Ofsted had existed then. In fact it was when ofsted started. I think it's a lot better nowadays though

I think unpleasantness to children is generally less tolerated, in schools of all kinds and in homes, than it seems to have been 30 years ago.

The D day incident sounds humiliating, but in no way really related to the kind of school in which it occurred. I can remember a lot of stuff my teachers got away with that they certainly wouldn't now (like smacking us at primary, for one!).

But on a broader note, yes, I definitely think people say things like 'I went to a shitty comprehensive in 1985 and no way do I want that for my DC', forgetting that it isn't 1985 any more, and in most cases not the same school either!

Obviously your experience was horrid, OP, but it's nothing to do with the fact it was a comprehensive and a lot to do with the old style of teaching. I know many people who could match pretty much your exact experience in the private school sector around that time. Teachers weren't quite so concerned about feelings for others as they are now.

Things do change and 30 years is a long, long time.

Reading this thread brought back to me, my experiences 35 years ago .
I was bullied by two particular teachers at my staffordshire Coal town high school. They would throw books at you and make discouraging and nasty comments about you and to other pupils, the school was no "Exam Factory" in fact 95% of students did CSE exams there.

one major incident led to my expulsion and leaving without any formal qualifications.

The P.E teacher used to berate me for being last in the cross country and would make comments about my weight as the reason i would always come last. In the march of the 5th year we were being forced to play rounders and i missed the ball with the bat , (The PE Teacher shouted at me and pushed me out of the way). The school had a pond which was about 30 metres away from where we we playing , the teacher went to pick up some rubbish up next to the pond . This was my chance for 5 years of bullying from not just her but others , i pushed her straight in to the school pond laughter and cheers greeted her fall.

I walked out of the school the next minute, never to return to the school or academic education.

I don't think you can help but be influenced by your experiences of schools. I went to a bog standard comp and it was useless for me. I am classic grammar school material i.e. academically inclined, able and motivated. The school happened to have an intake that wasn't so academically inclined or motivated (and it wasn't "cool" to show you were able especially if you were a girl) so there weren't enough children to make a viable top set in any subject except maths ( I passed my maths O level at the age of 14 as did a few others) nor was there any meaningful differentiation within most sets.

In my view comprehensives only work if they have a comprehensive intake so there are enough children at most levels that resources can be allocated effectively and everyone doesn't get lumped in the middle.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude
I am classic grammar school material i.e. academically inclined, able and motivated
it wasn't "cool" to show you were able especially if you were a girl

And THAT is what has changed beyond recognition in the last n years.

DD started at her comp and immediately took up with a group of friends known as the geek girls : they win all the prizes
and the school shouts from the rooftops about them because they haul the average scores up.

She is now year 11 and it is STILL cool (among the top 80 in her cohort) to aim for the top.

DS is year 9 - he came home today with a picture on his phone of a test paper to prove to me that he got 96%
the teacher allowed him to use his phone in class for that purpose

Its fantastic that there are schools that really celebrate learning now. I remember being sworn at across a classroom because I was better at Chemistry than the boys. I would always want my children in a school where learning is celebrated - not an exam factory - but where knowledge and curiousity are seen as good things.