Non SATS Tests - Can I Withdraw my DD ?? (Health Problems)

[Rockinhippy]

This last School year seems to be test after test for my year 6 DD, she's exceptionally bright, but stresses so much about these that it is actually counter productive & therefore unlikely to be any real show of her ability anyway & I believe they are more for the schools benefit - is that correct ??

She also has health problems of which IBS & anxiety amongst other things are symptoms (Ehlers Danlos) - though the anxiety kicks in as a result of a flare up, she's not anxious by nature, but becomes anxious when she cant think straight because of exhaustion & headaches etc - so you can imagine the effect of having tests thrown at her are having, she's so upset by this that even though the school insists the tests are played down, I am concerned that by the time SATS come around, she is going to be so worked up about this that she will be ill, anxious & unable to cope, School have already told us that our chosen High School use the SATs results for streaming, so it is a worry :(

I have been trying to find out about the extra time that is meant to be available for DCs with certain health problems, apparently 20 minutes recommended by specialist in EDS - BUT when asking in school about this I am told this only comes about after a handwriting speed test - one which DD would pass easily, though could still be painful for her, but she hits big problems with her mind going blank when exhausted, which she often is because of EDS, but there doesn't seem to be an allowance for this & the head cites the LEA as calling the shots on this.

She is G&T in most/all subjects - she was in maths, but has lost that this last school year, partly it seems due to new teachers teaching style not suiting DD & TBH I've not been too impressed myself as asking what we could do to help her, got me nowhere & I'm concerned also because that is decided by these test outcomes - is that right ???

DD is a massive perfectionist & often comes home after these tests feeling totally demoralised as she knows she hasn't done as well as she is capable of, Maths been the ones she's really upset about of late & as a subject she has always really loved, I really worry she is losing interest as a result :(

She's gone back to school early after a nasty illness, she's still ill, but she WANTED to be in school & its not catching - I've been brining her home for lunch so that she can rest a bit - I picked her up today & she's acting a bit silly & giddy - usually a sign she's over tired or upset about something but bottling it up - she was then telling me on the way home she was upset as they suddenly threw a 45 minute maths test at her & she feels she has let herself down as she just couldn't think straight & felt panicked when she suddenly realised it was a test, mentioning this to the teacher she was apparently told to get on with it.

I've ended up having to keep her home this afternoon because this stress has caused a big IBS flare up - she looks grey & now has raging diarrhoea & is doubled up on the toilet with a heat pad for stomach pain & has been there for an hour :(

What on earth can I do to help her reach her full potential, despite these tests, how can I get her the extra time she needs to reach her full potential & can I opt her out of the ones that are purely for the schools benefit as it just seems ridiculous - I come from the 11 plus era & I dont remember there being anything like so much pressure as there is on DCs now & its proving counter productive to my DD & letterally making her ill :(

literally

Personally, i don't think its the tests that are the issue here, it is how your DD is reacting to them.

She is getting anxious, and you say she is a perfectionist. Somehow you need to find a way to manage her stress levels and her perfectionism.

At secondary she may have regular tests (assessments), some with no notice, plus bigger ones at the end of terms in some subjects. You need to help her learn how to manage stress/anxiety now, not just duck out.

SATs in y6 help to inform targets at secondary and in some secondary schools are used for setting or streaming purposes (NB these are very different - which are used at your secondary). But in themselves they don't matter in the longterm. (You don't put them on your CV).

The tests the school are doing is presumably practice papers, to get the children used to the style of the questions. The scores don't matter in themselves.

In your position I would:
a) take child off for a few sick days to recover strength
b) talk about managing stress, what's important etc
c) if too many tests are really causing tiredness in hands, causing her to be ill, then talk to the school about limiting the number she does in a day.

Teaching your child not to get stressed and how to notice signs and manage it are the most important I think.

I would contact your chosen secondary & ask them how they expect to stream/set in autumn 2014; I would NOT trust primary to know.

AND I would ask them if the sets are flexible; yr7 DD mentioned that a boy in the second maths set got the highest mark on a super hard test recently; he'll probably be moved up. Good schools are supposed to have porous sets (Ofsted look for it).

I don't know how you cure perfectionists; it was the sort of thing severely frowned upon in my upbringing. She's not copying yourself, is she?

Sorry slow to come back, I've had DD & myself ill again & been a bit brain dead so I lost this.

Thank you, both of you :)

llijk no, not copying me with the perfectionism per se, but I do wonder sometimes if its hereditary - I used to be very much a perfectionist too, but I had to let go of that due to health problems & I'm really not at all now, far from it & she has never seen me that way at all as she was tiny when I took ill.

& I took your advice about ringing the high school, spoke to them today & you are spot on, its a load of rubbish.

Turns out they restream after the first term, let the kids settle properly in first & then its retesting for basic maths & literacy skills & they stream the DCs based on that, this she says id due to some parents paying for heavy tutoring to get their DCs through the SATs so turns outbthey don't see the SATs as a reliable gauge of all the DCs true level anyway :)

The lovely lady I spoke to sounded quite miffed that DDs primary are putting so much pressure on & her opinion was that is more likely for the schools stats than any worry over year 7 streaming - that in itself makes more sense too.

DD may well lose her G&T level in high school as the lady explained that there's a lot of high caliber students & that some parents see this as a problem. I won't, I'm just happy that DD is doing her very best, is fully engaged & not feeling demoralised & losing interest as she is now -DD is very much a "Doer" & a creative thinker, so I'm sure if she choses, she will succeed in life regardless of any tests - but it's just a shame I am put in situation of having to undermine the school & education system by telling her that to try & eliviate the stress she feels

Having spoken to DD more about this, it seems she's actually fine with subjects taught be one teacher, yes she moans about tests & thinks there's too many, but its different from the demoralised, stressed & physically ill DD I get back after subjects taught by another particular teacher - who also just so happens to be new to the school, so has something to prove & we have hit problems with her teaching style in the past, speaking to the teacher herself I've found her pleasant, but quite odd, she does seem to care, but openly admits to putting the pressure on & that she feels its right, but blames her employers as its EA policy according to her, targets to meets etc, yet the other teachers have the same oressure, but seem don't do it that same way

Thanks teen I did end up having to keep her off school again, she was just too ill to go & we do a lot of relaxation techniques etc, but everything I try just seems to be undermined by this teacher.

I do need to push for the extra time in tests for DD, it standard for her condition, but the school do far aren't having any of it, because she's bright I now have a hospital referral to a clinic that I am hoping can help with that & hopefully also ducking out if too many tests in a day - a few things have happened of late that I'm not pleased about, I don't feel the school are following the CAF targets as well as they make out, yet I'm under pressure to keep her in school even when ill - for the first time ever I thought - sod it last week & kept her home with an IBS flare as they hadn't dealt with it well enough earlier in the week :(

Thanks agin

I forgot to add llijk - its funny that perfectionism was discouraged with you, I had the opposite experience & with hindsight in my chosen field it was very much a good thing to be, got me ahead so to speak, but I don't think I remember stressing as much as DD over things though, so it makes sense to try & cool it a bit in her case

I come from California & we exalt the virtue of being laid back .

Glad to hear the phone call & extra chats were so productive.

Being perfectionist must be fine as long as it doesn't cause problems. It's not a value worth holding onto in itself.

Thanks lljkk

Seems Ive been barking up the wrong tree & the lighten up, laid back approach wont work for DD after all :(

• after a bad day yesterday where DD was sobbing her heart out & berating herself over her test results - that weren't bad at all, especially considering how ill she was when she took the test :( I came across a post on the G&T section that had link yesterday while scrolling through the active list, it was about a related set of personality traits "Debrowskis Oversensitivities" I could tick almost every box, fits DD to a tee & apparently this approach will only make them draw into themselves & potentially fuel depression, as they just don't get it at all - even the time scale fits DD to a tee too, have posted over on G&T in the hope of getting more advice on the correct way to deal with her - fingers crossed :(

'Turns out they restream after the first term, let the kids settle properly in first & then its retesting for basic maths & literacy skills & they stream the DCs based on that, this she says id due to some parents paying for heavy tutoring to get their DCs through the SATs confused so turns outbthey don't see the SATs as a reliable gauge of all the DCs true level anyway'

Yes, this is exactly what happens in our secondary school.

When I think of the horrible SATS dominated year 6 we had it makes me quite angry. It was far too intense; the pressure on the children was just awful and quite unforgivable on the school's part imo It was a relief to get to secondary school where the work is interesting and relevant.

Your poor dd I can't think of any way you probably haven't already tried to calm her down about this, but honestly the whole SATS circus diminishes into nothing more than a bad memory once it's all over. In fact at ours they went too far the other way and practically stopped teaching them anything at all in May once they'd had what they wanted. It was very wrong.

No secondary school worth their salt would ignore a child's potential or ability by only looking at sats results. Good or bad sats results, the school will make their own assessment that is not based soley on 9 months worth of jumping through silly hoops.

I know this maybe hard but I dont think your child will need more time in SATS ...my own daughter did SATS last year and the actual tests are not really pressurized at all and if she's bright she will do well ....the problem with SATS is the repetitive tests some schools do to try and see which children can be helped to reach the next level...e.g. access the children who are near to level 4 (so that they can get them to hit this level with more help)...help the children who are near to level 5 to hit this level and assess the children at level 5 who have a chance at getting level 6.....

My DD got stressed out a little trying to get to level 6 but didn't quite get there in the previous paper tests when she was in Yr 6 - walked out with level 5's ...but now in first term of Year 7 is being assessed at level 6A/7 in Maths and Science and level 6B in English.....(she just completed the maths test that they do normally at the end of year 7 and got 92%)

Just let your DD know that these PRACTICE papers are just that - let her just do her best ....she will be continually assessed when she gets into secondary though ...so she does need to try and relax...

I'm guessing she's probably level 5 and that's above standard...my DD didn't finish the Maths SATS test (daydreamer day) but still scored highly and achieved level 5

Banana

That's rings so true here, I've always loved DDs school, it has been fantastic, but this situation is changing m? mind, the pressure is ridiculous at this young age & so much more so than I remember when taking my 11+, yes the school don't seem to see how pressurised it is, they insist they play it all down, but how can they play it down when it is test after test - we've months to go yet too:(

lotty I do understand where you are coming from, I'm no pushy mum & if DD was relaxed about this I would happily just leave it as I know she will do well enough & well above average anyway - BUT she does have health problems & this IS affecting her during these tests & affecting her results, so is effectively stopping her reaching her full potential, which she knows & it is breaking her heart as she just feels so frustrated by it & she is totally demoralised as a result :( no amount of talking from me or anyone else lessens this frustration for her.

She has her results of these last tests & yes they are to see which kids & where they can be helped to improve their results going forward - but for m? DD they just show that she doesn't need help, just more time & feeling less pressure.

Apparently bar the questions she missed out as she ran out of time, ALL of her workings out where correct, but she miscalculated the answers at the end as she she just couldn't think straight due to pain, headaches & exhaustion making her mind go blank.

She missed a 5 by only a few points, she was at above 5 last year, (sorry my brains on strike today, so cant remember the exact grades) though her current teacher disputes this, which was something DD was also very upset about at the start of this school year as she felt this teacher had lowered her results as she was the only one working at her level IYSWIM - this was sorted out & DD was apparently correct, but teacher now not accepting that DDs results of these tests are lower, which again she is very frustrated by & it makes DD feel she has even more to prove - so not being able to complete papers, or do simple calculations, even though she has proven all through that she completely grasps the subject at a higher level with the working out BECAUSE her health problems are affecting her during tests :(

What i was trying to say is that SATS have nothing to do with your daughter reaching her full potential...they are tests that matter to the school....so I think its important given your child's health issues that you convey this to her and try to take a step back - it does sound like you feel that they are important and this maybe coming across to your daughter ...why keep a child in a test for longer if it will stress her out and if shes exhausted already... Your daughter's health must come first.

Maybe I'm not explaining myself well Lotty but no SATs mean absolutely nothing to me & I would gladly skip them all together which may just happen yet if things don't lighten up and she continues to get too stressed and doesn't get the extra time her health problems dictate that she needs I come from a background of dropping out of further education as it bored me & taught me nothing I hadn't already taught myself & still managed to be one of only 2 people on my course that went on to have a successful relevant career - I only worked hard at the subjects in needed - messed around for the rest as I was bored in school -

I have never ever needed any of the qualifications I then went on to get - DD will be the same as she has a knack with people, is very eloquent already & is a very creative thinker, so apart from the fact that the career she's currently interested in being a very academic one, one that neither of us are keen for her to do, but her life.

ironically the other person dropped out of my course too - he was far more money orientated than I was & is now a multimillionaire - so I really don't put a lot of store on SATs at all, especially now I know they want be used for steaming

What matters is that DD is very demoralised by all of these tests, not just fear of upcoming SATs & I really am stressing to her over & over that they really don't matter at all

but she has a MASSIVE perfectionist streak so it doesn't matter what anyone tells her, if she feels she has let herself down or is in the process of letting herself down because she is too ill to be sitting tests, then she gets more ill & her mind shuts down further, the extra time going forward could help that a lot.

We had no idea when she went back to school early when she was signed off sick that she was going back to 2 days solid of tests, I would have kept her home if I had known as she really wasn't well enough at all, that was on top of her usual health problems - so you are misunderstanding me, its really not me that that puts so much store on this, but her & I am just trying to accept this is just the way SHE is & do all I can to support her choices within the restraints of her not insignificant health problems.

FTR I also have the same health condition, so I do know for certain that cognitive problems, including dyscalculia are very much part of the condition - some days I struggle to add up 2+2 & I know that my leaving it & coming back to it a bit later can make all the difference

If she is being told these practice papers are tests then that is wrong.....they are just practice papers ...which are meant to help the children not stress them out ....

TBH I think by barking on about extra time you are actually putting pressure onto your daughter - because she will feel that you think she cant complete the tests in the time given..when clearly the school think otherwise.

Yes, that is exactly what she has been told, even confirmed by the teacher when I spoke with them, they blamed pressure from the LEA to get results

& no, I'm not "barking on" to her about extra time, nowhere do I say that I have even mentioned this to DD

That is something I know from other parents of DCs with the same health condition that that is standard practice & recommended by medical specialists in the field - but seems so far to be denied my DD because she is so bright. Even DDs occupational therapist thought that wrong, based on the exhaustion alone, but the symptoms needed to be covered aren't her area, so she is trying to find out what else can be done.

Though thinking on it, this last lot of tests and there have been many more have been used to give her this years grade results, which where given out in front of the whole class - this resulted in DD knowing that 2 others have done better than her & one of those repeatedly rubbing DDs nose in that fact - which also didn't help the situation :(