Education superclass?

[Amber2]

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/iainmartin1/100245274/it-is-much-worse-than-sir-john-major-says-a-new-superclass-is-being-created-in-london/

This is interesting coming from John Major ...sounds like more lobbying along the lines of the Sutton Trust but do people really think it's much worse than it ever has been..? and this is do with with the inexorable rise of London...and the global money flowing in there...and so to creating an elite superclass of private schools also ...not just any old private school but a small handful of elite ones, applications to which have reached record numbers, presumably more and more from London and from overseas with over inflation rises in fees pricing out the traditional middle classes that used to be able to afford these schools.

rabbit no assumptions, just challenging the rhetoric ....... And I agree if you can make fun of something it is less of an evil, even Cancer

My favourite classical music CDs, if you don't count Carols, and The Messiah (obviously because I am northern) are The Classic Experience volumes 1, 2 and 3. , they remind me of my student season ticket for the Halle (now that was a way of broadening horizons). Though that Radio 4 programme on Dido's lament www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00r6029 made me cry whilst walking the dog.......

But seriously I very much agree that teaching our DCs to be open minded as much as broad minded is the important thing. I have made a project of it

So I am guessing we are all going to be in front of the BBC on Saturday night.........

And I have to admit, I do find it vaguely depressing that I have to listen to a recording of "Big Red Combine Harvester" drowning out the sounds of any of the children singing when I go to Harvest Festival at my children's state primary school. Followed by a pop song with too difficult a rhythm for the 6-year olds attempting to sing it to be able to keep up. I don't see how that is in any way teaching an appreciation of the joy of making music. Thankfully, the school has now started to use the County Music Service to help it. I remember far higher expectations in my state primary school in the 1970s when it came to making music.

Rabbit, I agree, I just want my children to grow up to be interested in lots of things.
DH is thinking of retiring early. We will have less cash and people are already telling us he will be bored. He has a million things he is keen to do and is really looking forward to having the time to do them. Time is a massive luxury.

rabbit no I'm not, and yes it really is. I'm not the one snobbily decrying television of other ties of entertainment that I don't like but others might, and then claiming that if people don't like 'classical music' it's because it's elitist. No music is elitist.

I mentioned Chopin because his waltzes are definitely on my seven desert island discs list and would probably be the one I'd rescue from the waves. One minute their joyful the next their agonisingly sad, I believe Chopins children died and his sadness comes through some of the waltzes loud and clear. There is no elitism or snobbery here I just like them, you can like what ever you want I would just hate people to never have the opportunity of hearing them.

Shooting nope I'm going to be at the Excel.

Indians - others might like bear baiting and watching necrophilia. It is not necessarily snobby to draw the line at things you find exploitative and nasty. I have explained what I have a problem with and why.

Happy we can agree about that. Gove's project (apparently the word du jour) to destroy arts ed is one of the most worrying aspects of the trashing of our education system that is currently taking place.

The really worrying thing is that while music is not and cannot ever be elitist, musical education is becoming increasingly so - or at least, the province of the at least mediumly monied. Obviously money can't buy talent, so I don't think that kids who don't deserve to do well are doing well because of deep pockets, but I do fear that many kids - including kids of the rather better off but still not stratospherically rich professionals that have been one of the subjects of this thread. The amount of money we shell out on lessons, exam fees, residentials, instruments (in the last 12 months we had to make 3 MAJOR outlays, although the timing of one of them (new piano)was rotten luck as much as anything, certainly we wouldn't have replaced that unless we had no choice. But, we had no choice. :(

Rabbit - I probably draw my line more rigidly than you do (I won't watch ITV at all except if someone I know has written the show, the music or is the star and even then it's only under protest). And that is obviously illogical. But your original post (before you explained what you meant and set out some derogations) was somewhat judgey and snobby. Your subsequent explanation made sense. :)

And we still agree on the DM, so...

Sorry, in my earlier post I should have said: but I do fear that many kids - including kids of the rather better off but still not stratospherically rich professionals that have been one of the subjects of this thread are being excluded or priced out

And I was about to be rude to you, Indians, for being the ultimate elitist, by criticising people for using commonly understood terminology, which is guaranteed to put people off trying to get involved in it, in case they put a foot wrong... But I shall forgive you.

You know damn well that I was pointing out that you were being snobby with no basis - looking down on people who you ASSUME don't like 'classical music' because they are not part of your elite when you can't even be arsed to use the correct terminology (which is in fact widely known). But whatever. Carry on telling yourself you're the elite, and carry on judging others, I really don't care. It's not my problem.

I'm not sure it actually is snobby and judgy to refer to inane TV (not TV in general), gossip and celebrity lifestyle magazines, and the editor of the DM, Indians. I was not the instigator of those terms or examples, anyway, I was just repeating Happygardening's dislikes and largely agreeing that I do not personally find those things harmless entertainment. I don't think they are harmless entertainment, because they are often quite nasty. I would happily live in a world without them and I don't think a world without them would be particularly snobby.

So do you think I should stand for election on the "shoot the editor of the DM" only plolicy. What are my chances of winning? I'm a little worried that your support is not an accurate reflection of society. There's that other women who writes for it I think she used to also be on the Moral Maze I nearly have a stroke when she's on the radio. Can't think what her name is it will come to me in a minute.
By the way neither of my DS's play or have ever really seriously played an instrument.

happygardening - I think you will find yourself at Her Majesty's Pleasure if you go ahead with this plan.

Indians - you accuse me of ASSUMING people don't like classical music. When have I ever done that? Lots of people don't, it's a fact - including friends of mine with whom I have gone to nightclubs and pop concerts, but who had no interest whatsoever in coming to a night at the Proms with me, because they expressly said they had no interest in "that sort of music." Obviously, I am not elitist enough.

happygardening - it's that Melanie woman you're thinking of, isn't it?

(takes great pleasure in referring again to Classical Music, which according to Wikipedia, "is art music produced or rooted in the traditions of Western music (both liturgical and secular). It encompasses a broad period from roughly the 11th century to the present day.[1] The central norms of this tradition became codified between 1550 and 1900, which is known as the common practice period.")

or at the very least a back history.

I like a bit of classical. sends my husband to sleep though when he is driving so had to order him to never have it on in the car ever again

Melanie Phillips aaaarrrrrhhhh. Come the revolution she going to be amongst the first to the wall.

It always makes me laugh when people say they don't like a particular style of music, because you can bet if you give them an example of perhaps one or two of the more popular pieces they will agree they like it. Jazz and Big band is another example, who doesn't like In the mood.
I used to say I didn't like Country and Western, the first time I heard Dolly Parton sing I will always love you, it blew my head off.
We need to stop using music as a weapon to win arguments, especially in terms of wealth, snobby, elite etc and start opening our minds, ears and encouraging our dc to listen and learn. Music is part of the fabric of our lives and souls, or should be.

As you were.

Couldn't agree more morethan but our children need to be given the chance to hear all types of music, be exposed to art drama ballet, literature etc etc regardless of background. But for some reason many many are not experiencing these things.

morethan. You are not staying away from education threads

Guilty pleasures of the intellectual "elite" especially see Naomi Woolf who positively embraces the nastiness of celeb magazines www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2007/feb/03/weekend7.weekend5?guni=Article:in%20body%20link

Russians the number doing music even in "elite" private schools is small. To be sure they have big orchestras and choirs that win national competitions but the ones pursuing it even at O and A level let alone beyond are very small and almost certain to be on full scholarships / bursaries and already en track for eg the NYO from primary school. I don't know the detailed reason beyond that if you don't have talent you don't consider it and if you do it is still hard and it is viewed as better to do something else if it isn't going to be studied further, especially if you have proven your prowess in grade exams (same reason DD hasn't done Drama or Theatre Studies when she already has two grade 8 Lamdas). I am sure it does cost money but the level of talent necessary doesn't seem to occur that often amongst the wealthy. DDs school opened a brand new music centre to 1 A level student. (Though some talented girls had been recruited away at 16 again on bursaries to specialist schools) I get the impression that the need to have a thriving music department to demonstrate breadth to would be prospective parents means they are actually prepared to invest in bursaries for talented musicians. My DDs theatre school did the same for talented actors and singers and then they went on to the Brit School at 14.

I couldn't say for sure but I think in London there are music and drama groups that are attracting and nurturing the talent from all backgrounds, not perhaps so much in classical skills but certainly in terms of musical talent.

My DDs both learnt instruments and one was having three singing lessons a week all free so she could perform for school and theatre group and neither of them ever sat an exam. DD1 got a lot of relaxation out of it, and DD 2 a lot of confidence. I hope DD2's voice will be a source of joy to her for the rest of her life because if Gareth Malome isn't going to start a choir for oh the parents of elite school kids, dr who fans, gardeners or anything else I qualify for perhaps he can rediscover her, though I doubt it is worth making it a project

Actually one of the hair on the back of my neck moments when listening to music came from a Beijing opera singer, normally to my western ears Chinese opera reminds me of cats fighting, but the sheer emotion found it's way through all that. You get a bit of it in Farewell my Concubine. So yes be openminded and these experiences will happen in the most unlikely places.