Education superclass?

[Amber2]

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/iainmartin1/100245274/it-is-much-worse-than-sir-john-major-says-a-new-superclass-is-being-created-in-london/

This is interesting coming from John Major ...sounds like more lobbying along the lines of the Sutton Trust but do people really think it's much worse than it ever has been..? and this is do with with the inexorable rise of London...and the global money flowing in there...and so to creating an elite superclass of private schools also ...not just any old private school but a small handful of elite ones, applications to which have reached record numbers, presumably more and more from London and from overseas with over inflation rises in fees pricing out the traditional middle classes that used to be able to afford these schools.

We do appreciate it and I wish it could be extended to many more and I don't think it's all about money. I was telling a friend that he was listening to opera in history her reply "Why what's that to do with history? You paying for that what's the point?"
The only answer I can give; I once listened to a mountaineer being interviewed "why do you do it?" asked the interviewer. "Because they're there" was the reply. Surely this ethos because it's there needs to be applied to education. Expose our DC's whatever their ability to art, music, literature, philosophy, politics, everything and everything don't formalise it and turn it into pointless exams that 10 years down the road no will even be interested in just study it because its there.
Why. Knowledge is power, knowledge makes up confident, articulate, tolerant and broad minded, if we are encouraged to question in school, to think, then maybe we will question things and think as adults, we will not except the propaganda churned out by the likes of the DM. Of course our governments don't want us to question and think to much they want us to be small minded, our brains to be filled with the last episode of Downton or some other rubbish, to not worry about the monumental decline in our health service caused by financial cuts, or that in a so called civilised society people are still homeless, SS are still failing to identify children at risk of abuse despite all the recommendations following the terrible death of Victoria Climbie or the most disadvantaged are having their benefits cut, or that God know how many leave education unable to read and write to an acceptable standard.
My grand father believed that a broad education was power and that however poor or lowly your background you had a duty to improve yourself and then you could stand on equal terms with the elite and fight for all in our society. May be an idealistic dream but certainly one to aim for.

'You don't have to be super clever to benefit from this you just need the right teachers freedom/time and an open mind.' ...

and a peer group with a similar disposition I guess.

Sounds wonderful, I know my children would love that kind of education and would benefit and thrive. Such a privilege for your DS HappyG.

Do you need a peer group with a similar disposition? I genuinely don't know the answer to this but I hope we don't. You need inspiring teachers, a wholesale change in how we view education would help.
Am I being ridiculously over optimistic if I hope that most children exposed to Chopin, a Verdi opera, De Vinci, Mallory or Cezane couldn't help but be inspired/impressed/excited by these things? Perhaps I am .

Happy

Just curious..Are your DSs at different schools given them a different approach to education? Why does one school suit one but not the other?

I don't think you need a peer group with a similar disposition, my dd is standing alone from her friends and learning exactly what she chooses to, irrespective of a curriculum and need for passing exams.
Her friends are supportive, but it is a whole different ball game to how she learned at school.
Breaking free from the constraints of school has helped to broaden her outlook and now she can be interested in what she likes, work at her own pace and not bother with the things she isn't ready for.
I think it is important for children to find their own way, with few restrictions.
You may be a little optimistic because the culture you mention imo needs quite a lot of exposure before a child becomes inspired and impressed, but yes all children should have the exposure to decide for themselves.
Your post was so refreshing

HG I think a young person may be less likely to allow themselves to be enthused by that sort of education if they are fighting against a tide of peers who think it is uncool. When you are excited about something a lot of the pleasure is sharing and discussing it with your friends.
The main practical limiting factor in expanding this sort of wider ranging / off syllabus education is that actually there are n't sufficient teachers out there who have the education / cultural background required as well as the enthusiasm and ability to teach it.
Unless that changes we will continue to have an education superclass limited to certain schools who are better able to recruit such inspiring teachers by whatever means.

These schools are better able to recruit teacher with the necessary education/back ground because quite simply if you are the sort this of person your more likely to apply to them. A newish history teacher at my DS's school was telling me the other month how fantastic it is to be able to teach anything as long as it's within the confines of the stated period, that you can deviate down any path you or the boys fancy and what a contrast this is from his previous school where history was a state examined subject and therefore a curriculum had to be followed. Your right summer this does take knowledge in your subject and passion and skill. In fairness I regularly hear teachers from both the state sector and other independent schools complaining about the narrowness of the curriculum. DS1's Eng Lit teacher even admitted it was boring! I was frankly stunned to find that the art teachers at DS1 school seemed to know less about art than I did and Im not overly knowledgable, neither could discuss any illusionists beyond Escher although this was their suggested theme for DS1's project. How can you inspire, guide and most importantly enthuse if your knowledge is so limited?
We come back to my grand father again he almost thought it was his duty, a necessary requirement to have a broad education as I understand did many of his generation and background somewhere down the line we've lost this.

It hasn't been entirely lost in the children of those who had those beliefs, happygardening! My father sounds a lot like your grandfather. Unfortunately, though, the modern world makes me feel deeply cynical and mildly despairing, and I have to keep going back to my father to be reminded that the world is actually an amazing place and it is wonderful to be alive with so much to learn and do, and if we do not even try to aim for our idealistic dreams but just let ourselves be dragged down, then we are guaranteed never to achieve those dreams.

happy I think there are a numver of factors that stand in the way of the education you and I give our DCs being rolled out on a macro scale. First, money. It costs a hell of a lot and takes a lot of resources. Second, desire. I can tell you from experience in RL and here that a huge proportion of parents do not want it!

My initial reaction is like yours word that it takes money but does it? Can someone please tell me why most of our children sit so many GCSE's now fat grey middle aged no one even asks how many I've got. Once they've left uni no one will care if you've got 12 or 9 as long as you've got the core subjects. So much time is taken up in school to studying for them. Why not do what my DS's school does and just study subjects for the sake of it?
You second point is of course the answer. A huge proportion of parents don't want this type of education many are shocked when I tell them that my DS doesn't do history or Eng Lit GCSE. The commonest comment "they have to have Eng Lit GCSE to go to university" clearly they don't! Or "how can they study history or Eng lIt at A level if they haven't done GSCE?" Last year nearly 50% got either the equivalent to an A* or an A a in Pre U English and just under 80% got either an A* or an A in history clearly demonstrating that an GCSE in either subject is not a pre requisite to success at Pre U. Other people say "oh I wouldn't like that how do I know what they're learning if there's no proper curriculum? They might miss things out" In the UK we've come to depend on a our over prescribed education believing its the only way to do it we've become complacent and lazy many I suspect cant be bothered to "better themselves" they see no need to do this. But I frequently hear people say they are intimidated by those who've obviously had a broad education, I returned to uni as a mature student my fellow students (all 1u and 19 years old) delightful as they were, were openly jealous of my broad eduction (not that I know that much frankly) "I wish I knew as much as you do" was a comment so many made "who taught you all of this" "we don't learn this sort of stuff at school nowadays. you were so lucky" "do you spend your whole time reading books?" Huh in my dreams my DS's were only primary school age at the time I was a mother a full time student and holding down a part time job not much time for reading.
Ironically so many look down their noses at Poles etc who are "taking our jobs" Over the years we've had au pairs mainly Eastern Europeans not only are they able to come and live with completely eccentric family and easily adapt a skill in itself and most are incredibly hard working. Its very obvious from talking to them that they have a much broader education than we do, they can speak English for a start or if they don't they make learning English a priority but we've also been impressed by how well read they are and how knowledgable they seem to be on art and classical music etc. they seem to think this is normal. This was well over a decade ago Poland wasn't even in the EU then none of course were from the educational supeerlass from looking at photos and listening to stories about their their lives most were pretty hard up, living in less than great conditions; large families in one bed flats etc a bit like my grand father of course!

happygardening - like you, I can also think of many examples of young people from less affluent countries than those of Western Europe who have impressive cultural knowledge. Perhaps in those countries/places/times where consumerism occupies less mind space people gravitate more easily to higher cultural pursuits?

I'm an atheist buts I'm with Chesterton on this one; "When a man stops believing in God he doesn't then believe in nothing he believes in anything" in our case it the God of consumerism.

I agree, it really doesn't have to cost a huge amount to broaden your mind. Mind you, the lack of interest is rather depressing. If neither your family nor your school see the point in trying to open your mind and broaden your horizons, then you are fighting a bit of an uphill battle. Seeing someone you admire and look up to be enthralled by something and pay you the compliment of sharing it with you can have a huge impact.

So rabbit we come from different points of view with regard to independent ed. but we're broadly in agreement on this. So have you any idea as to how we can get families, schools and society as a whole and oh I nearly forgot current and future education ministers to see there is "a point in trying to open you mind and broaden your horizons" because I haven't any useful ideas about how to go about it apart from severely restricting inane TV, banning gossip and celebrity life style magazines and shooting the editor of the DM.
I'm not sure I could run for PM on that manifesto! All sounds a bit lefty to me.

Alas, I'd like inane TV, gossip and celebrity lifestyle magazines and the editor of the DM to go away, but my father always said that you can't force change, you have to enlighten people so that they can see why and how the world would be a better place that way and want to take part. The enlightenment bit is the problem! Even the BBC seems to have given up on catering for the audience it would like to have, as opposed to the one it actually has!

Ah but the BBC can waive the radio 4 programme In Our time under our noses as a example of how they are not dumbing down their programes.
The other month I thought it could be quite interesting they were discussing my dissertation subject, I'd be the first to admit its a bit dry and niche but I hadn't got the faintest idea what they were talking about so I don't know what the man on the Clapham omnibus would have thought!

True, there is still some really good stuff on radio 4, but I'm a real saddo and have been listening to radio 4 since I was a little girl and I think they have dumbed bits of it down. Or maybe that's just nostalgia!

The Archers has never been the same since Nelson died. :(

I've stopped listening to the Archers it's become far too dramatic it used to be just so boring just perfect.

Amusing how this thread is meandering here and there (now on the Archers) ...and still going ...but still v. interesting!

So Accents are not important then? I have just heard on Sky News about a
Teacher at a Primary School in Thatcham, who was marked down by Ofsted for having a Northern Accent. It just goes to show even in state Schools Accent is important in getting anywhere.

Would Happy and Rabbit I wonder have been amongst those that saw the novel, and especially realism , and most especially Charles Dickens as dumbing down society? Or even the 70s academics at Oxford who wouldn't accept the Brontes as part of the canon? There has always been popular culture and the "elite" have always asserted their value judgements on the value of different sorts of cultural capital to preserve elite status. Perhaps Happy and Rabbit are unconsciously swapping their credentials in terms of cultural capital and in so doing accepting that the polish that "elite" schools confer is actually important?

I know that the counter argument will be about aesthetic value / beauty but evaluating that is terribly subjective especially when society changes, new technology appears etc.

When I visit the "elite" boarding schools my friend's children are at they have the pictures of the same celebs etc that appear in my DDs' elite school magazine. They watch MIC and Geordie Shore etc. but not because they are role models, but because they are entertaining, in the way the music halls were, and before that the globe theatre....... They are today's Bottoms and Falstaffs. I suppose in retrospect we will be able to comment on what the zeitgeist reflects about society as my DDs' EPQ does about Thatcher's Britain but it is very obscure in the era you live in.

But focusing on it as the cause of the country's ills is reactionary and a distraction from the real issues. Instil a love of learning and people will carry on learning all their lives. My music teacher gave up trying to inspire a love of opera in a bunch of Led Zep worshipping northern girls and resorted to singalonga Oliver. It worked, it opened up the world of music to me far more than sitting listening to LPs.

My friend who faces a bunch of disruptive boys whose main interest is not X Factor but tractors and agriculture machinery has gained their attention through discussing German engineering with them (hence the cardboard models) so that she can expose more fertile minds to contemporary German media and the German literary canon. However who is to say that a lifelong love of German engineering, and the language skills to go with it, won't enrich their lives and encourage them to look outwards at the rest of the world?

I would also shoot the editor of the Daily Mail though.

Soul I have a northern accent. It has never been remotely a problem. In fact I was told by a Psychologist training me up in negotiation skills that it carries perceptions of honesty, straightforwardness and care with money that you can exploit

There are plenty of accents in the media now.

I bet there is more to that story. There is of course a difference between an accent and incorrect use of Grammar.

shooting I'm just ignoring the snobby bits. Especially since some of the cultural 'touchstones' mentioned are hilarious.

Perhaps you and I are the only ones who are not ashamed of our kids' phd/olympic level knowledge of Friends.

I am still convinced that it was neither my sick maths skillz (is that what the young people would say?) nor my working class immigrant council estate background that got me into Cambridge but rather my ability to gab on for rather more than my allotted hour with one of the interviewers about B7 and DW. The fact that I was diploma level on two instruments, and had read more books than I'd had hot dinners never even came up.

I think we are all as one on the editor of the Daily Mail though.

But the archers is not boring.

Forgive me but I just don't grasp this hamster wheel sort of mentality. Work your children like dogs so they get fantastic academic results, combined with fantastic extra curiculars. Then they go and work like a dog in a massively competitive, highly paid job in one of the most expensive and overcrowded cities in the world.
They will work outrageously long hours, live in a tiny house or flat, their children will be raised by the hired help. But that's okay, because they will have made it.

Meanwhile here in the "provinces", we are taking it easy in our large homes in our uncrowded, civilised towns and villages. We are SAHPs living comfortably enough on one professional salary. We are living nice lives, enjoying our children rather than just seeing them as a "project" to enable us to keep up with the Joneses.