Education superclass?

[Amber2]

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/iainmartin1/100245274/it-is-much-worse-than-sir-john-major-says-a-new-superclass-is-being-created-in-london/

This is interesting coming from John Major ...sounds like more lobbying along the lines of the Sutton Trust but do people really think it's much worse than it ever has been..? and this is do with with the inexorable rise of London...and the global money flowing in there...and so to creating an elite superclass of private schools also ...not just any old private school but a small handful of elite ones, applications to which have reached record numbers, presumably more and more from London and from overseas with over inflation rises in fees pricing out the traditional middle classes that used to be able to afford these schools.

Sorry I wanted to say English is MORE the language of science, I suppose whether it is international or global has some effect on the language used.

I can assure you that business between Italy and France does not take place in English on a systematic basis. Nor between Spain and France. And last week I placed a big order in Germany for something I could only get there and I was extremely pleased to speak German because the website was entirely in German.

Monolingual people (of whom I know many) see the world through their own cultural and linguistic prism and zap the rest, by and large. That is why England is so increasingly bad at languages.

I'm going to poor cold water on some of these assertions....

I work in a pan-European project, dozens of people involved, few native English speakers. Almost everybody involved has a PhD, so plenty clever people (no idea how educated before university). English is our official project language, all meetings done in English, but only one of the non-native speakers really speaks it naturally; also the only one who can write well.

I think it's quite challenging to speak English fluently if you haven't lived for a long spell in an English-language environment.

As for the supposed super-educated elite; well Fuck Em. Who wants to joint their club, anyway? Why is it so wrong to be satisfied being ordinary? By definition, vast majority of us are stuck with ordinary. Stupid to rail against it. Better to campaign to make sure that the conditions for the ordinary are good rather than give a Fig about what the top tier do.

I tell a lie... just thought of one other person in the many dozens who writes well in English although not his first language. Heck, a lot of native English speakers can't write our language clearly for toffee.

Ut giant that in some part what this thread is about? It is not the how to get the best education with lots of money thread? It is the look what has happened? Is happening? Why? do we agree? What should we do (if anything)? what are the effects?

There was a bit about after school opera and some comments about exams ([shame]) and now we have moved back to languages.

It started off talking about social mobility after all

Arohaitis My work is nothing to do with science/medicine etc. Law and Finance use the term 'technical' too - possibly in a slightly different way to usage in the sciences.

Sorry you said technical I erroneously extrapolated, which is funny since I had just been wondering whether everyone on the thread was a lawyer.

I am still waiting for you to point out to me where I said current experience didn't count though.

I don't know what hep pens to the start of my posts the one two back should say

but isn't

As for the supposed super-educated elite; well Fuck Em. Who wants to join their club, anyway? Why is it so wrong to be satisfied being ordinary? By definition, vast majority of us are stuck with ordinary. Stupid to rail against it.

Otherwise you're back to dotmania (above) whose DC feel hard done by because they are 'only' rich, not very very rich. And who wants to hide from the rest of the world behind gated communities anyway?

Must go and do some work ...

Bonsoir I can assure you than transnational business does, by and large, take place in English. You speak many languages apparently and therefore you conduct consumer transactions in whatever language you wish. People will not refuse to speak to you in their native tongue. But business to business commercial transactions and projects operate with English as the lingua franca (many of us could still make a good fist of it in Latin, mind you). Most transactional business take place in many different jurisdictions - smallscale operations between Spain and France (which actually will definitely still be more likely to take place in English than any other language, although that will be dependant on which region of Spain is involved - I've seen business within Spain conducted in English because of tensions between regions, actually) are just one tiny little aspect of transnational business. Once you chuck in Scandinavia, Asia, Africa - English is what works and it's what people use. You need some global perspective.

I will stress again - I'm not saying languages are worthless. But if languages is all you have to offer then you will be playing on a sticky wicket.

Heck, a lot of native English speakers can't write our language clearly for toffee.

Exactly. That was the point I was making above. If you can do that, you will be better placed than someone who can order food in 8 languages.

Arohaitis You said you were interested in experience and opinions not if someone was working internationally right now. The clear implication being that you preferred the 'from memory' approach of those who you agree with to 'current' information from someone who doesn't.

Perhaps I inferred something you didn't intend to imply.

I've been reading the thread with interest, after hearing John Major's view - thought this blog post suggesting that social mobility may be no worse than the past, but that the UK is particularly poor at it compared to other countries was interesting.

We will have to agree that we inhabit different worlds - I inhabit a plurilingual one and you an Anglophone one. I have never claimed that languages alone were useful. Then again, I inhabit a world where everyone has higher level professional skills/qualifications and languages. If you do not have language skills you won't be doing the roles that require them. Just because such roles exist doesn't mean the other ones don't.

Bonsoir - you are funny. Rude. But funny.

I think you have a bit if a chip, don't you?

Certainly agreed with you Bonsoir, language is important, especially living aboard. Many years ago while we were in HongKong, attending a function where my DH had to make a speech and toast to few hundred local staffs, he chose to use his nearly acquired Chinese language instead of English (everyone speaks English there), and that makes the different! It is easy to say everyone using English as media in commerce, but if you are willing to take it a step further and adopted their culture while living in it, you get a lot more respect from them.

IndiansOnTheRailroad - glad to hear it. Are you involved in recruitment of new trainees?

One way or the other, I am provincial at heart - I like living in the provinces and see no attraction in living and working in London with my children, or being moved from one country to another, moving my children in and out of international schools or having to send them away to boarding school. I also know that lifestyle would not have suited my particular children: I dread to think of the struggle of dealing with the early years of my ds1's unusual development in numerous foreign countries.

Indians yes you did but I only read the first part of my sentence when I skimmed it before posting sorry!

(posting rather than speech can lead to giving totally the wrong impression has happened to me before on here very embarrassing)

of course it was not helped by missing out the words all and just from the sentence and the fact that I am trying to buy a cooker at the same time!

I must slow down I must slow down

rabbit Yes I am. I'm also involved in the development of existing employees.

Rabbit that is why I asked for a definition of global elite as I am curious as to why it is seen as a touchstone.

It is easy to see the material benefits and there are plenty of other good things about the life in terms of the people one is able to spend time with but there are continual family compromises to be made and problems to be solved, while trips on a private jet are over quickly and anyway soon lose novelty value.

I think it very much depends on what one means by international work. If you do lots of travelling to lots oif different places to work with lots of different nationalities then language skills arentt that much use to you. You couldnlt learn enough! But if your owrk deals mainly with one or two countries or languagees or you're posted there, you'd be at a disadvantge not to speak the langugae.

It will be an interesting world if there is this global elite who moves the way the financial wind blows with no ties to any particular nation.

My bil worked for a family a bit like this. Homes all over the world. Schooling in UK, chartered plane to Houston for medical matters, shopped in Milan, yada yada.

The children did play 27 different sports and spoke numerous languages, but they were rootless and seemed in a way, dimmer than bright, educated but more down-to-earth ordinary children.

Any "superclass" will not throw up film makers, writers or comedians. I doubt whether any engineers or computer wizards will be found among their ranks. And who knows whether these may in future be the more valued professions ?

Slipshodsibyl - I don't feel threatened by a global elite because I think they have a fantastic life that I covet for myself. I feel threatened by a global elite because of its capacity to create shit for everyone else to wade through... To feel threatened by them because you want to be like them would just be silly. If you want to be like them, then go out and be neurotic about your children's education and force feed them Mandarin lessons.

Just don't let them create a world where you HAVE to be like them, or sink.