If you can afford it, would you send your children to an independent school?

[Fiona2011231]

This is a hypothetical question, and I would greatly appreciate your insight.

My question is based on this assumption: In England, if you want your children to have a better chance in life (great success, joining the elites, etc), a good independent school is a requirement. Of course, few have enough money to afford it.

But suppose you have enough money, would you send your children to an independent school? Or would a grammar or a comprehensive school be good enough?

Thank you.

I chose independent education precisely because I didn't have a gifted child! Or one of the ones that 'will do well anywhere' that well touted mumsnet phrase

Yes sadsometimes, if I had my time again I'd try private secondary for my non-academically gifted son.

The well-regarded state school he attends doesn't provide the same structured framework that I see the pupils I know at private schools getting. He doesn't have my motivation to do well as he lives in a comfortable world, which given the Tameside story I'm glad of! But a pushier school would have done him good, I think.

Just checked out the FSM proportions at ds' school: it is "only" 19%, against a Glasgow City wide average of 29.3% (and a Scottish average of 15.4%)

Half the pupils are bi-lingual with a range of languages spoken.

Despite that, it still gets results that are comparable to, or above, the Scottish average. :)

Two great posts Funnyossity. the school in Tameside has 23% high attainersl. I imagine the vast majority of those high attainers at Hyde Technology achieve C and Bs at Gcse for the reasons given above. These 23-30% of kids from these areas are the ones that grammar schools were set up for to enable pathways in to professions and University. I am not saying some kids don't get there despite the disadvantage of going to these schools. However i bet out of ten pupils in the 23% high and top 7% of middle attainers from the Hyde school their destinations would be, 1 in jail 3 would be on the dole
3 would be in low/medium skilled work, 1 would be a housewife 1 would be a university graduate 1 would be successful at business.This is for the brightest of that school, god knows what the other 70% are doing probably minimum paid work if lucky. The sad thing Funnyossity that in the areas that need grammar schools or some form of selection , the chances of there being any is zero.

Bright kids under achieve much more than average or below average kids in these types of schools. The reason is if you were a bright kid, would you want to make yourself a "Target" or would you just go along with the majority of kids and your peer groups whose ambitions are limited.

Would you send your Dcs to a school that after one of their pupils had been shot , issued a statement like this....

"The School had an incident where a student brought a BB gun and plastic
pellets on to the premises"

"Staff were alerted on Thursday, and the students concerned sent home pending a though investigation.

"The school regards this as a very serious incident and immediately contacted
the police"

"it is unfortunate that this event has been sensationalised by the press"

"Hyde Community College remains a safe and harmonious environment for staff and students".

"SENSATIONAL" GCSE RESULTS 57% A-C next to this on the website.
You really could not make this up.

soul2000 - what percentage of children do you count as "bright"? And do you mean all-round "bright," or can that figure include, eg, dyslexics, or dyspraxics, or children with adhd who nevertheless have high IQs? What about musical children? Or sporty children? Or children who are averagely bright, but really work hard, behave well and want to learn? Even when grammar schools existed across the country, I don't think they ever catered for the up to 30% of children to whom you refer at one point in your post - in fact, I think in quite a few areas, there were real problems with providing enough grammar school places for the number of children who passed the 11 plus (and that's before the days of coaching for it...). What would you do to improve the provision for the majority of children who don't get into grammar schools? Or does it not matter for them if their education is disrupted by a boy with a pellet gun? Or do you think that in general, 70% of the UK population would be OK with sending their kids into school with a pellet gun, so it's only 30% of people who need protecting from this?

so dangerous, badly run schools are OK for all but the brightest and richest

I sent miy daughter to pivate school but now she goes to state school its not that I cant affod it anymore but if you can get into a good state school then do that instead I feel I have wasted my money as she is no better or worse than any other

I have gone off private school since reading some of the threads on the education boards on mumsnet. It is a crazy world, parents having 3 year olds tutored for entrance tests!

Rabbitstew. Regarding dyspraxics and children with Dyslexia/As .
When i left my Comprehensive at 15 years old unable to barely write , probably because of Dyspraxia or other symptoms Undiagnosed as was normal 30 years ago with a high IQ but unable to show it (WAIT TO BE TOLD I HAVEN'T) because education did not understand differences in how people
with these conditions comprehended instructions and lessons. I am very aware of how bright many of these kids are and thankfully today they are able to show their intelligence .

Talkinpeace. No child or member of staff should have to ever face that kind of situation, i have faced ( A real Gun situation with a customer of mine actually being shot in the buttocks) thankfully she survived, so i know who frightening it is and unfair on 95% of the school population. I would be amazed if this is the first frightening or threatening this pupil has done or said
.to staff or pupils, if that pupil is not removed from the school or any other place of education in the near area, a scar will remain with all the pupils and staff. As for the schools statement are they aware it could have been a Real Gun and a grenade that the pupil brought to school, oh yes as the idiot Chief Constable of Greater Manchester said, we are unable to track or control the number of weapons that are in circulation around north Manchester and Tameside. This incident could have been very serious indeed and real casualties could have occurred . You may think what i have said is EXTREME but one day "SOON" a kid is going to walk into a school with a real GUN.

The school is a grade 3 with Ofsted so needs to improve . Talkinpeace as a matter of fact , how could anyone deal with a student bringing a Firearm on to their premises, the only way is to get these kids out at the first sign of abuse or threatening behaviour.

Parents differ in what they are after and if your career enables you to pay fees you end up with a bit more choice than if it doesn't.
As for firearms some private secondaries of course teach children how to fire them. It's one way to get the interest of some teenagers. Probably a little safer than a pupil smuggling them on to the premises although that could happen in state or private school.

ElizabethJonesMarti, unfortunately the spread of firearms in some cities has been exponential in the last few years. It really came out of the blue and in my days at a comprehensive guns belonged to another world, that of the huntin', shootin', fishin' fraternity. So maybe these incidents do seem more normal at a traditional private school, I wouldn't know about that

Yes, there's a difference between bringing a gun into school to shoot at clay pigeons and bringing a gun in to shoot at people... However, if private school kids are just as likely to sneak firearms into school so that they can shoot at the backsides of their mates as state school kids are, then I do think it is quite right of ElizabethJonesMartin to bring this to our attention.

I think most people looking at private schools are looking at the calibre of the parents if they are honest. I could afford it but didn't I think its pointless unless a child has a specific need which requires it. I would say the majority of my 'old' friends eg before dc have their kids at private. I can see NO DIFFERENCE in them and my ds and his mates now they are in HE they all seem to drink smoke give parents hassle etc in equal measure

noddy I agree but I am noticing that the private school people at university age are more conservative (perhaps not a surprise) and the state school ones are more likely to choose less conventional courses.
The jury is out at the moment as since the world of work has changed massively and I can already see how one of the less conventional students has graduated and their career is flying right now.

Yet Eton this week has said it does not want coached children but the eccentrics and original thinkers so I don't think it's fair to say all private schools want to produce conventional children. I like the ability and almost right to be different which some private schools perhaps seem to allow more than some state schools.

I suspect private school children pick better careers and earn more and that is something the state system perhaps should address.

"I think most people looking at public school are looking at the calibre of huge parents if they were honest"
I'm proud to say I've never looked at a loo or a bathroom in my life and now it would appear I can also proudly say I have never looked at the "calibre of the parents" either what ever the hell that means.

Interesting spell correction I'm unsure as how the becomes huge! I suppose looking at parental size is one way of judging their calibre!

EJM

Curious - was that in some article you read this week? Do they mean coached for exams or for interview? Imagine many are coached for the scholarship exam.

Have just seen

this article.

Assume it was this?

But all this "number of kids applying for every place" stuff is rather a lot of guff.
Back in the stone age when I was changing schools I was entered for the scholarships at and applied to go to around ten schools (including St Pauls, Frances Holland, etc).
Then circumstances changed and I went somewhere totally different.

DD is currently applying for 6th form.
Her friends are applying to 3 or 4 colleges but there is no real demand for that many places.

Which is why I prefer the DFE measure that comes out a few weeks after state school admissions which shows the number of children in each area who got their first choice.
Outside London its in the region of 90%

I suspect Private schools are pretty much the same -because if there really was that demand, private schools would not be going bust and closing every term.

On the other hand I can rightly beleive that the staff at Eton are heartily sick of over tutored hothoused kids who will crumple without constant prodding.

I'm amused that you can be rejected by a school because it fears you will fail to fit in whilst the school simultaneously wishes to escape the tyranny of conformity. Perhaps they should scrap that conformist uniform and all that tiresome tradition, too. And have a debate with Winchester on whether manners maketh man, or whether that's a bit too conformist.

"I suspect private schools are pretty much the same - because if there really was that demand, private schools would not be going bust and closing every term."
I agree the small unknown ones and even the well known but not overly academically selective ones are struggling to fill their vacancies but the likes of a Harrow Eton Westminster SPS and Win Coll they are over subscribed. There are numerous posting on MN about how to get your DS of Eton waiting list, and I know from a conversation with the admissions tutor that Marlborough is over subscribed.

Talkinpeace. As you know many private schools some "Quite Well Known"
are having to do one of three things. 1. Go coeducational 2. Become a free School 3. shut their doors, just recently Howells school in Denbigh Wales closed after 130 years as a girls boarding and day school. London though is a different Continent, from the rest of the country the difference between London and the rest is huge , so maybe there is still great demand there.