Genuine question - why do some people have a problem with the grammar school system

[englishteacher78]

I went to one - my choice in part, parents would have preferred me to go to the Catholic secondary. As a teacher I have worked in two.
I know if I had gone to the Catholic school I would have coasted (even more than I did).
Some people seem to he very against the grammar school system and I'm not sure why. It was the making of my dad (miner's son from council estate in Scotland)and I think that all counties should have that provision. Surely it's just split site streaming in a way.

And who said "non grammar hell holes"? I don't think anyone used such emotive language did they?

What do you mean?

Ah, are you about to accuse me of dismissing the outliers? Sorry, I didn't mean that. What i meant was that the people who could move up from the very top of a "secondary modern" are just ordinarily bright, not outliers who may or may not need special provision. They are people who in a comprehensive school would just move up unnoticed. Not a special case 1 or 2 %.

"Who should be addressing it?"

The giverning body of course. That is their job.

PolterGoose "I find the 'I don't give a fuck about other people's children as long as mine get the best education' attitude really quite despicable."

Who is actually saying that? What is despicable is the determined refusal of some to understand the invidious position in which many parents find themselves. Why does trying to ensure that your own children receive the best education available to them mean that you don't give a fuck about the others? Does ensuring that your children are fed mean that you don't give a fuck about children who are starving?

Right then Polter I find all those parents with kids in Outstanding,Good or private schools who clearly couldn't give a stuff re those not so lucky and whose kids get a worse start and thus less advantages at the beginning of secondary despicable.

Don't notice many of the above hot footing it down to their local Needs Improvement primary their kids are safely ensconsed from to hear readers and help to improve things.

How do you define a parent that doesn't give a stuff Retro?

And what exactly is it that you think they should be doing that parents who aren't so lucky couldn't do themselves?

How does Polter define "couldn't give a stuff"?

And ditto to your last question re parents with kids in grammar school?

Seems to be an awful lot of hypocrisy on this thread and a few parents happy when their kids get the favoured primary but not so happy if they see other kids getting something they see regard kids being excluded from in secondary.

You know what if any of my dc do or don't go (and we haven't made up our mind fully yet as the dc haven't even visited all options)I really don't begrudge or give a stuff re those that do.

Mine have already experienced the shitty end of the stick and all non grammar alternatives are better Ofstedwise than the school they're in.Kind of puts the whole green eyed envy thing not perspective.

Into

I am a parent with a kid in a grammar school. I'm also a parent of a kid in a comp. I don't think I have any responsibility towards other schools because I support my own, which is enough. I also don't think that me or my children have any more responsibility towards other children who aren't happy with their school choices than we do towards any other section of society. Our responsibility to society (making a positive contribution, paying taxes, not being criminals) is the same no matter what type of school system we have.

Great however others on this thread think anybody going for grammar doesn't give a fuck re other children as long as theirs gets the best.

As I pointed out that is unfair.

I don't really think it makes much difference whether people give a fuck or not. The vast majority of children have their own parents whose job it is to give a fuck about them and their school.

Sounds wonderful Coconutty , it would be lovely if the rest could follow suit and no one could 'buy' their place.

I suspect that if you can't tutor for it and 'dead certs' don't get in we will find that parents in Bucks will not be so keen on the system!

Sadly parents giving a fuck isn't enough in some schools but others are still happy to merrily enjoy the benefits of a good primary which others don't have which is fine.However whilst doing that don't berate parents simply trying to choose the best school for their child as it's hypocritical.

If you care so much pull your kids out and send them to the local unsatisfactory school so children can all be truly equal and have the same start to education.

I don't believe you can't tutor anything.

The new Bucks has a maths and Eng exam which those in the shittier primaries will be disadvantaged in. Soooooo their parents will need to tutor to up their levels(which can be done)and is no worse or different than attending a good school.

I don't believe there is a tutor free test, but fervently wish there was.