Dd back from assessment at prep - low nfer scores

[Altamoda]

She is at a prep at the moment. Her nfer score for maths was 96 (national average is 100). She'd always done very well in maths tests at current schoo aand is engaged and seems to grasp mathematical concepts easily. We are a bit concerned. Would you mention to current school? New prep is more academic but not sure how much we should read into this.

She is year 6 btw

I would definitely mention it and find out what their thoughts are.

I would mention it.

Hmm, I would imagine they are using that for setting etc.

96 is bottom set stuff for maths, and would affect what they teach her for the future.

If she's moving on to a different school in Y7 might not be so much of an issue though.

Speak to her current school. Ds is in yr 7 of a prep school, its only after he scored very low in maths at a pretest for a senior school that they admitted this week that although hes in the top set in maths he should ideally be in a lower set as hes struggling with some concepts, but his previous exam results have always been too high to justify putting him down. Ideally speak to the head of maths at current school, though obviously the stress of testing can pull a childs score down as well.

Current teacher has mailed back to say that result would be a complete surprise to him as she scored well above her chronological age in the INCaS tests now very confused

Are nerf test questions similar to the numeracy part of CATs.

If so they are nothing like as good a test of maths ability as teachers seem to believe.

They do test being able to do quick puzzles using some mental arithmetic skills and whether you think like the question setter.

DD1 got 97 in Y7 and around 110 (can't remover exactly) in Y9 cats.

She's at the very top of set 2 for maths and I'd be surprised if she doesn't get an A.

She won't get A* because she's dyslexic and even with 25% extra time she'll be pushed to finish.

And that is the problem with CATs and I suspect nerf tests, if your processing speed, working memory (no scribbling paper) and instant tables recall aren't good they are really pressured.

Doesn't bear any relationship at all to your ability to understand rearranging equations, negative numbers or even differential equations, just fucks up doing one stupid little test that makes you spend Y7 in set 3 maths staring at the wall, doing L4 again and being the TA for set 3 science

No DD1 and I don't trust, standardised 'maths' tests

Please OP ask as many difficult questions as you can.
And certainly if your DDs verbal reasoning and NVR scores are reasonable don't feel she's destined to fail at maths.

Interestingly she was doing the tests for the other prep as we felt she wasn't being stretched enough at her current prep. With those test results she'd be put in the 'non scholarship' stream at the new prep

If she stays where she is and goes up to the senior part in yr 7 I have no doubt she'd be in top set maths.

Makes our decision a bit easier!

In this case staying with people who know her real abilities is possibly the right course of action.

Just as my DD1 wants to go to a different sixth form away from teachers who knew the dizzy, socially immature, in your face dyslexic who started life in set three. To some where that only sees her GCSE results and gets to interview, the still quirky, but far more assured and very hard working young woman she now is.

Thanks. I can't actually believe I am having this conversation as she is such a bright girl. Is there any way the results could be wrong??

Have spoken to teacher at current school who is extremely surprised at results.

Dd wasn't expecting the tests and didn't take them very seriously (we weren't told they would be testing on the taster day).

One test on a particular day that she wasn't mentally prepared for and didn't try hard at doesn't seem like a basis for worry. What percentile is her NVR score at? A gap between that and attainment could indicate poor teaching at her current school or a learning difficulty. If there is no gap then she does need the extra support of lower sets. You can buy NFER tests (or you could) or similar. Why not do some tests at home?

Thank you. I do not know what her NVR score is. Can you work that out with tests at home?

Her current prep seems to use INCAS tests which indicate she is working well above her chronological age

whatever that means!!

She's such a happy, engaged, friendly child who has masses of confidence. All I can tell you is that when she has maths homework she works carefully through the Gold sections of the sheets with almost no help.

ds completely bombed one of the Quantitative Reasoning tests - can't recall if CAT or Pip - but still got comfortably into a selective school at 13+ , is in one of the middle sets and will hopefully get at least a B at GCSE. At prep he was in the bottom set but that suited him better as was smaller and he received a more thorough explanation at his pace

Bond sell NVR books in any WHsmiths as 11+ practice.

star ball OP does need to be comparing like for like though. NFER are developed against the scores of the rest of the population so that 97 will also be translatable to a percentile of the population who would score at that level. OP can then compare a test of ability with a test of attainment. All those scores will be available in the pack or online. The problem is that they used to make a limited number available for practise purposes, and the rest schools could buy, but I am not sure if they still do. Also scores for NVR will improve over a few test papers (shouldn't be more than 10, but for grammar school test it appears to be infinite as they have not invested in making them untutorable).

My DD does have learning difficulties and an NVR score that was a bit lower than her verbal reasoning which is her strength but she too got into a very selective school and with the support in the small bottom sets got an A* at GCSE.

My older dd struggled at her first school and I remember we tested her NVR which was very very high

it didnt seem to translate into exam success at all UNTIL suddnely now in year 9 she seems to have taken off academically

I know I shouldnt worry but I feel a) worried for dd2 and b) pissed off that I've spent a lot of money on prep school which seems to have been wasted!

It's nice to hear you can get access to nerf papers.

I'd have loved to be able to lay my hands on a CATs test and have a proper, evidenced based, go at school about how dyslexia unfriendly the numeracy appears to be.

They are petrified about letting DCs practice, there are 3 questions on the web, that's it.

Would the test have been very much against the clock? That could be a reason for the low score. If your DD is good at maths, understands new concepts easily but is a meticulous and methodical worker, she could still score poorly on these sort of test. She could go on to do very well at GCSE level where it is important to read the questions carefully, and check your work before handing in your paper and time is allowed to do that.

Normally all IQ type tests are tight in time.

This is why DD1 has such trouble with numeracy, no time for counting on fingers or scribbling in the margin and multiple choice exams often don't have a margin.

Conversely tight time is to her advantage in NVR, you have to have the confidence to go with your first answer.

I'm dyslexic too and somehow pictorial puzzles kind of turn into a coherent short story, not single facts. They don't get mangled by useless working memory.

(I love science because it does the same thing on a larger scale)

NFER tests - probably the tests now called GL Progress in Maths tests, since GL took over NFER a few years ago - are designed test the knowledge which has been taught by the end of the school year. In October, they should be using the test designed for Year 5, and move on to the Year 6 test in about March.

These tests are not at all like the numeracy part of the CAT tests, many of the questions are quite wordy. As a private individual, I think you can buy them online from Granada Learning, but you would have to buy the manual and a pack of 20 question papers.