OECD Study puts England at bottom for Maths and Literacy

[missinglalaland]

A major study by the Organisation of Economic Cooperation and Development puts England's 16 to 24 year olds at 22nd for Literacy and 21st for Numeracy out of 24 developed countries. Ouch!

What can we do to fix this? More money? Less permissiveness? Sorting by ability? Different teacher training? Longer school years? Different methods?

I should add that I do agree that low aspiration is a particular problem in the UK - comparing the culture there and here. Of course there are kids and families who just don't care - but in my own experience there are just less of them; kids here (unlike the ones I grew up with in the UK) don't seem to believe that the world's against them - probably because no one's telling them that it is.

I think when I was growing up in the 80s Britain was still a major player in the world, politically, economically and educationally. However 30 years down the line the world order has changed and the British haven't quite acknowledged the fact that other countries have made great strides in these areas and if not overtaking Britain then definitely catching us up. My parents emigrated to Britain in the 70s from a former British colony where being white and British meant you would instantly be promoted over the natives regardless of your actual ability.

However this is now the past and we British do very little to address how we are to face these new world realities and still feel entitled to have a well funded welfare system, public services, good work/life balance, decent standard of living etc etc. ive worked in NHS for 20 years and in the last 10 years I have seen so much more competition for jobs from excellent candidates who are foreign nationals. On the whole they will accept lower grade jobs, are more focused and moan less about t&c than their British counterparts. DH works in the city and in his team of 12 he is 1 of only 2 British nationals and spends most of his time managing teams in other countries where most of the work is now out sourced as they will do it at far cheaper rates. I fear for our dcs as they will face a world where competition for jobs, housing and public services will be much harder. They will also have to understand that global events will also have a much bigger impact on their lives and they will need the a better standard of education than is currently on offer, life skills and emotional resilience to withstand all of these.

Musical, this is so true
'Children at primary should go to school and learn things like timetables and handwriting, spellings and grammar. They are there all day after all. Then come home and do baking, dressing up and singing. Unfortunately at the moment the balance is swung the other way'

Unfortunately, very few people have the inclination or indeed the ability to plug the gaps left by schools. I would, in a heartbeat, take the money it costs to 'educate' my kids and spend it elsewhere. It enrages me that I am the one who has to press mortar between the bricks, even more so when I have spent all day doing the same for other people's children.

Also I think the tax and benefit system don't really encourage people to work hard. A friend of mine she is lovely and all that it annoys me the fact she never earn enough to pay income tax and of course she and her family can enjoy state benefit that we are never entitled to have. She doesn't want to earn more or improve oh no. Because then she will lose her benefit and pay tax as well. My dh doesn't really have a extremely well pay job but enough to pay 40% tax. We have to pay everything for our selves and not entitled to have any benefit not even child benefit. If I want to do a course in FE I will have to pay the course fees and childcare so I cannot afford it. To buy a house is the same. If it is under£200,000 no stamp duty, upto £250,000 is 1% still ok but beyond that is 3% but why extra extra more? Even if we taxed the same % we will automatically be paying more any way but why if we work harder means we have pay extra extra more. I feel the harder we work and save the more we are rip off by the tax system. For those work less they are rewarded more. I don't have problem helping those who really need help but hate being taken advantages of.

Mind you, moondog, I don't think THAT many parents do baking, dressing up and singing with their children at home, so drop those off the school curriculum and some children won't be doing any of it, they'll just have more time to watch TV, which won't help them in the long run, either. Being excellent at chanting times tables and writing neatly doesn't ensure you know how to run your life effectively and engage effectively in society.

I know some opposite types rabbitstew.

Those who are very well engaged with their children but may not own any books and think the school are going to sort out education. Their children and mine have been friends and imo they don't need the social engineering side of school: their children are among the most pro-social ones! But the parents don't realise they will have to fill in such gaping holes.

Also there is far too much time spent watching tv in my child's current school.

Well, no, rabbitstew but times tables and spellings are at least a foundation for learning how to work your way around life.

So, be more rigorous with times tables learning and spellings (something my dss' school does perfectly well), but don't drop singing and cooking to fit them in - just drop the TV watching and Captain Underpants reading...

In fact, definitely keep the singing, but set higher standards in that, too. Dumbed down singing and "cooking" are just as bad as dumbed down maths and English.

Sir Michael Wilshaw yesterday pinpointed the issues arising from dysfunctional family attitudes towards parenting and thus education. That is the main problem. The second, which would be more easily addressed if the first were less common, is to have highly qualified and paid staff.

Prof John Goldthorpe,of Nuffield College Oxford, who has studied social mobility for many years has also stated that education alone cannot fix things and that the politicians are wrong to insist education alone is the answer. It is, however, much easier for them than trying to address the real problem.

Agreed!

No cooking at DD's French school but lots of grammar.

Its perfectly possible to do times tables and spellings AND high level cooking and music!

dds' school is still working on the standard of music, but the other three are great. And there are kids who are flying on the catering front who will never shine amongst their peers on academic subjects - I'm all for keeping the wider curriculum.

Plus, some of those kids will never learn how to prepare home made three course meals full of vegetables at home (and I'm not talking about the FSM kids, either). Which are a very important basic for living, along with maths and literacy IMO.

Elibean, but I'm not sure whether it is really agreed that school is the right place to learn this. If your school is doing a sound job of teaching children to plan and cook meals then do you think it is in a minority?

'Being excellent at chanting times tables and writing neatly doesn't ensure you know how to run your life effectively and engage effectively in society.'

No, but I'd rather my child was able to do this than to model a castle in foam bricks or glue pictures downloaded from the internet into books. My son has just completed an assignment on the seasons and in the pseudo scientific language of the NC, the 'success criteria' stated that he could included pictures.

I told him that he couldn't. He was going to be writing all of it.
Oh, and if he made a mistake, he was going to have to start again.

The more you try to do to offset the corrosive effects of poor parenting, the more you enable the behaviour of those people who think it is the school's job to in effect, parent their child.

I do think that the emphasis on teachers providing remedial social and pastoral education for children does not help the Uk in climbing league tables of this sort. I also believe that quite a lot of potential teachers are put off teaching as a career because of this.

Yes, Slipshod, I think it probably is in a minority cooking-wise. And lucky enough to grow its own fruit and veg, to some extent.

I think, in London, that is a rare experience for any child - and hugely valuable, on many levels.

When I went to school, a million years ago, the curriculum was wonderfully varied and creative. I still managed to get to university and become eminently employable.

My mother, OTOH, went through the French system and says she felt like a sausage in a sausage factory. She is, admittedly, an artist.

I'm all for academic excellence (I come from an academic family), but actually think the way forward - especially at primary level - requires a well taught, broad education with engaged, well rounded, happy children.

Which drilling, or dare I say it even well taught academics alone do not achieve.

I do think that the emphasis on teachers providing remedial social and pastoral education for children does not help the UK in climbing league tables of this sort. I also believe that quite a lot of potential teachers are put off teaching as a career because of this.

Agree very strongly, and also that this emphasis attracts some of the wrong sorts of people into teaching. We need more clarity (by far) on what school is for, what home is for (the responsibilities of parenthood) and what all the intermediary professions are for.

Re gridding and chunking,do they do it in other countries and will it be in the new maths curriculum?

No gridding and chunking at either the DSSs French state primary or DD's French private primary.

No gridding or chunking at dn's and dnph's French London schools either.

No lateral thinking either, unfortunately (hence very bright dn didn't match criteria for top British secondaries - the sort that like lateral thinking).

I am reliably informed by my sister that French schools in her part of France have started gridding and chunking...
Sorry, but learning times tables and spelling is easy for some children and does not require hours worth of repetition in school - they need to be catered for in the schools half you lot seem to be envisaging as a solution to the nation's problems.

I'm all for a creative and diverse curriculum at school. One that sits comfortably alongside the academics.

However, some of the things school currently try to cover is not remotely creative. Or diverse. It's just papering over parent shaped cracks.
And this is highly time consuming.

I think it's high time we stopped looking to teachers to deal with every new problem in society!

I come from a working class family. Both my parents left school at 15. My Mother is profoundly dyslexic. And yet they were perfectly able to to teach me to cook, shop, manage a budget and think for myself.

I'm certain that the vast vast majority of parents in the UK can do these basic tasks. And can pass them on to their DC.

I'm certain a great number of parents in the UK cannot and do not teach their children to cook or manage a budget. It is fairly obvious from the state of the nation that parents are mostly capable of teaching their children how to shop, but far too large a proportion of them have no concept of budgeting or cooking themselves, let alone being able to pass these skills onto their children. The nation wouldn't be so obese and in so much debt, otherwise...