Michael Wilshaw tells private schools to do more for the state sector

[muminlondon]

www.theguardian.com/teacher-network/teacher-blog/2013/oct/02/ofsted-michael-wilshaw-independent-schools

He's not afraid of being disliked, is he? He gave a speech to the heads of private schools telling them to sponsor academies in deprived areas - only 3% do so.

My favourite quotes are:

'... think less globally and more locally, "less Dubai and more Derby"'

'What might you say to parents who think that noblesse oblige is the latest perfume from Chanel?'

'Your pensions, many of the public may be surprised to learn, are subsidised by the taxpayer. Most of your teaching staff were educated at public expense. The independent sector gains 1,400 teachers from state schools every year.'

You said we were lucky to be able to pay for private health. We are not fucking lucky. We are obviously part of a 'problem' you want to eradicate.

iseenodust, 7% of the most able children being creamed off is enough to destabilise the state sector IMHO. it doesn't matter that the RC and girls schools are state- they cannot be comprehensive in the true sense if they only admit those of a particular faith or sex! Many schools which are called 'comprehensives' are not. It has become a shorthand for state secondary school but a comprehensive school is one which has a comprehensive intake of students across socio-demographic background and ability. That is why the 'comprehensive' experiment failed. Because the schools could never be fully comprehensive.

Joni - dont let it get to you.

People constantly tell me I am 'lucky'. When I eventually retire I will have 40 years in employment. My silly SIL says how 'lucky' I am to have a private pension... Nothing to do with working for it hen (unlike her!).

handcream - I think you'll find not everyone gets paid the same in China.

I think everyone should try to make the best of what they've been given in life and some people are lucky enough to be given more than others, and/or have more capacity than others to cope with life's stresses and strains. Where I have a problem is at the point where I feel I am crossing over from giving my children opportunities to becoming a bit self indulgent and uninterested in the lives of others. There are so many temptations out there, it's hard to know what the "right" choices are and what is self-justifiying bullshit.

Thanks for the kind words handcream

Fay, so if some people cannot afford something its not available for all??

Where do we stop, business class travel - banned, waitrose and M&S food banned. All because others cannot afford them...

And some arent decent hard working people tbh. Some are the feckless, the dishonest, the people who dont think about the consequences of what they do.

The fact that everyone is working equally as hard and can achieve what others have just isnt true. My DS wants a 9-5 job, she wants to work locally, she doesnt want any worries. She is looking for a job and has told the recuitment agency all the things she WONT do as opposed to what she can do. Not surprisingly she isnt getting very far.

Joni, I think you are getting your knickers in a twist over something you have misinterpreted me saying. What problem are you part of that I want to eliminate? I don't like the NHS subsiding the private healthcare system. That's it. You don't have to agree with me. You then jumped in casting aspersions about me making moral judgements. I'm doing no such thing. I think you are 'lucky' in the limited sense you can afford to do something that someone who might have just as much need, cannot (and you first used the word 'lucky' not me). It's your choice to be offended by that.

I don't really mind if my DC's private schools have to help out local state schools. They probably already do!

I'm not sure though, that it will make any real differnce to those schools or the pupils. The problems faced really can't be fixed by borrowing a footie pitch or a Latin teacher...

Joni - you are exactly the sort of person who looks at a situation and does the best they can. I would go cleaning if I needed to to afford something. A small example. We can afford a cleaner but we choose not to have one. We did have various people over the years - without fail they let themselves down. Two young girls were doing it and I caught them bashing each other up due to an argument about a man.

The next one thought it Ok to bring her 3 kids with her when she thought I wasnt working at home. i came back to find them feet up having looked through the cupboards for crisps. The final one just didnt turn up when expected and didnt give any warning.

So, I saved the money every year and put it towards a holiday. Mauritius was lovely! What I am saying is that we all have choices about how to spend our money. My DM has little but she is very happy, sees her GC's all the time, comes on holiday with us when she can and life is good for her. Money doesnt necessarily make her happier

Judgemental and patronising too
I hope to heaven your opinions are only ever limited to words on a screen and you don't, as you predict, ever become Minister for Education...

The thing that most reduces social mobility is family environment isn't it? Schools which face most difficulty have a significant proportion of the student body coming from homes which don't really want what is on offer.

The extent to which schools in all sectors are blamed for societal problems always surprises me a little.

I am trying to speak as simply as I can here. handcream, If people want to pay for private healthcare, that's up to them.

My point was this and this only- I don't like the way private healthcare is set up in this country. That's it. That was my only point. The NHS underwrites the private healthcare system by providing the trained doctors that work in it and the cost of the emergency care when it goes wrong. I don't think that's how it should be.

I'm not arguing for some kind of communist state here. I would just like to see a good state education system that supports all children and provides a more just society with opportunities for social mobility for all. And an NHS that would enable all people to get the care they need, so that people like Joni wouldn't need to use the private sector, and people as deserving as Jni but who can't afford the private sector, would get the care they need. I'm offended for the people in the latter group who deserve care but can't get it on the NHS and can't afford it themselves in a million years. I'll save my outrage for them.

Some people just cannot budget, rich or poor. Money is used on the wrong things yet they complain they still dont have what others have. What is the point about having the latest Iphone if you have been on benefits for years? You might justify a phone but the latest models?

Some on this thread are judging people who pay for private education and presume they are lucky in some way. Its just landed in their laps. No effort required. NO, IT HASNT!!

Did I really use the word lucky?

What hugely offended me Fay was you saying 'lucky for you you could fund the care you need.'

Handcream, don't you see though, that for some people, taking on an extra job cleaning, or putting aside some money each month won't ever get them private health care or a holiday to Mauritius. If only it were that easy. Some people do the best they can in a given situation and it still wouldn't get them what they need. Who's being patronising now?

Joni, tell me, please, where have I been patronising and judgmental?

Well, I can't help you being offended by that Joni but I am sorry you are. I'd like for everyone who needs it to get the care they require on the NHS. My sympathies are with those who aren't getting it and can't afford to pay for it either.

Fay - you are dreaming. I hope you are never in a situation whereby you need to use the private healthcare system. Its all very well claiming that you want this perfect world (dont we all!) but it isnt like that. Suddenly a situation occurs where you have a choice of standing buy your principles or making a very close relative feel better more quickly.

And grammar schools encouraged social mobility until they were scrapped. They are a shadow of themselves and really only for the middle classes who can afford the tution fees.

The Minister at the time Shirley Williams opted out and quietly sent her child to a direct grant school. And that awful Diane Abbott, trying to justify her choice of school because she was West Indian!

No grammar schools in our area. In fact the nearest non private secondary school is five miles away. The next nearest is 8.5.
I live in a county that wilshaw slated for having too many failing schools.
If something goes wrong with the local (not great) state school and you feel you have to move your child I can see why people would choose a local private (if they can afford it) rather than the failing school 8.5 miles away.
I honestly don't know many people who would to use their children as educational guinea pigs if they were given the option not to.

no no you, and your child, must be punished for trying to do the best by your child Jayne. The ills of your society are your personal responsibility.

Fay-do you really think that the 7% in private school education are the most able? Hate to pop your bubble, but they are actually populated by students from across the intellectual spectrum.

I feel sorry for the people who need healthcare and are badly served by the NHS. My view is that if you wanted to have your leg amputated on the NHS you'd have a queue of orthapaedic surgeons clammering to do it. On the other hand if you need help with persistent wounds, orthotics, ie the stuff that isn't 'sexy', the so-called Cinderella services, then you have to pray you have a half-decent service within your area.

If people like Fay have their way my DP would be sitting on a couch for the rest of his life

I am happy to do my bit and bang the drum for public services being dragged up to the best level they can function at, particularly education and health, but those people who pompously call for the demise of private healthcare should do so knowing there are people on these boards who can only live relatively normal lives because if it

Handcream, I'm not saying I wouldn't do what Joni has done int he same situation. Where I have I said that? I wouldn't let my children or husband go without treatment if I could afford private healthcare and that's the only way they could get it. But I still maintain that I am not happy with the private healthcare system as it is currently structured. And I am most unhappy about the people who need care but don't get it because they can't afford to pay.

And perhaps I am naive, but I'm arguing to try and improve the situation for the good of everyone, (and let's not forget, that this thread is really about education, not healthcare) rather than trying to each play our own advantage which leaves lots of children the worse off overall. I don't blame individual parents for playing the system to improve their children's chances, but the function of the State should be to look at improving the system for all children.

Is that true about Shirley Williams? It isn't often that I hear something about a politician that shocks me but that is astonishing!

There are no grammars round here, no faith schools and there is no choice of state school (rural). So there are'nt many destabilising factors that you speak of. But the truth is that I live in a relatively poor area with high unemployment and the only state option isnt very good.

There is little social mobility here because the education on offer in the state system is poor. That is the problem that needs to be solved.

It has very little to do with the existance of the local private school where 80% are boarders from all over the UK and the world. Less than 100 children there are from the surrounding area.

I too would like to see a great state education system, I would be £250k better off for a start. But I dont think sending my DC to an underfunded, underperforming, local state school is going to achieve that.

Joni, I know all about the NHS and persistent wounds, thank you. My mum has a non-healing leg ulcer and lots of chronic health needs. She can't afford to go private. I know all about 'Cinderella' services and being a squeaky wheel and so on and so on. I worry for the people who have similar health needs and no one to be their advocate and bang their drum etc,

What on earth have I said that would lead you to believe I'd want your husband on a couch for the rest of his life? I've intimated no such thing.