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Education

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Original poster

Michael Wilshaw tells private schools to do more for the state sector

493 replies

muminlondon · 02/10/2013 23:57

www.theguardian.com/teacher-network/teacher-blog/2013/oct/02/ofsted-michael-wilshaw-independent-schools

He's not afraid of being disliked, is he? He gave a speech to the heads of private schools telling them to sponsor academies in deprived areas - only 3% do so.

My favourite quotes are:

'... think less globally and more locally, "less Dubai and more Derby"'

'What might you say to parents who think that noblesse oblige is the latest perfume from Chanel?'

'Your pensions, many of the public may be surprised to learn, are subsidised by the taxpayer. Most of your teaching staff were educated at public expense. The independent sector gains 1,400 teachers from state schools every year.'

OP posts:

Bonsoir · 04/10/2013 13:31

"How exactly would you legislate against "luxury" schools?"

You cannot legislate against them, but you can suffocate them by making all schools follow a particular set of guidelines.

Elibean · 04/10/2013 13:37

Ah Rabbit, we could start a 12-step group on that basis....I'd be the first to join. What would we name it, I wonder?

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 04/10/2013 13:41

Well now we're on to 'playing the race card' and querying SN, I think things are getting a little complicated!

But just because Tony Blair and Diane Abbott made dubious statements and choices, I don't see how that means nobody is genuinely opposed to private schools, or is perfectly happy with the school near them.

rabbitstew · 04/10/2013 13:42

The RabbitBeans? Or the EliStews?

rabbitstew · 04/10/2013 13:44

Or just the Hair Shirts Anonymous (except for the first two members).

Kenlee · 04/10/2013 13:48

Ban private schools... who would educate us foreigners...

BTW they don't make the school posh for the locals... Its for the overseas students . .I mean what parent will send thier kid to a run down state school and pay for it...

So tax break or not they will still be around...

BTW my daughter attends a luxury indie....She loves it there...

Im in favour of taking the tax break away....So the school can get away from any government control.

rabbitstew · 04/10/2013 13:54

I know - what happened?! Public schools used to be gloriously grim and run down places. AND people were still willing to pay for them.

rabbitstew · 04/10/2013 13:55

Physical schools will never get away from ALL government control.

handcream · 04/10/2013 13:59

I didnt say a lot of people are lying. I said some.

rabbitstew · 04/10/2013 14:00

I'm sitting.

Kenlee · 04/10/2013 14:03

Im lying down...

handcream · 04/10/2013 14:05

If the status was taken away the schools wouldnt then offer busaries etc. What if your child lost his place?

Eton traditonally takes boys from the state system who are exceptionally bright and puts them in a prep school for a few years and then onto Eton (obviously with their permission!). in my DS year a boy did just that. His state school didnt know what to do with him. His parents didnt have English as a first language and didnt know our system.

Honestly, if that was your DS and he was flagged as being of that cailbre. Would you turn down the free place and put him in the local school because of your principles. Answer honestly please!

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 04/10/2013 14:09

Oh well, Handcream, I'll play that game too: some people lie about their reasons to send to private school. They'll say the school down the road just isn't good enough and it's all knifey, and if only they lived near a leafy excellent comp they'd use that, but oddly enough, where they live, the comprehensive is either shit, or it is a white middle-class enclave with no ethnic mix, so they sent their child to the wonderfully diverse 'indie' school which educates the whole child, is full of old cars and ethnic minorities, all on bursaries, and nobody cares about labels, cash or accents.

When what they really mean is, they think you get a nicer type at private school, the hockey socks are rather flashy, and frankly they'd rather send a child to the wolves than into a state school with the chavs. Oh yes, and they don't really understand statistics, so they think that because only 50% of the intake at Oxford and Cambridge are from state school, that means private schools just teach better, and stuff like that.

Oh, that was fun

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 04/10/2013 14:12

Handcream, it's a bit difficult to put myself in the very specific shoes of the parents you describe!

If it were me, and someone offered to put one of my dds in prep and then onto CLC or something, I would refuse. Have already said as much.

MuswellHillDad · 04/10/2013 14:17

Are you a MHD 1 or MHD 2?

handcream · 04/10/2013 14:18

Nit - fgs - another one with the chip on their shoulder about private education! I live in a grammar school area. I didnt like the way grammars were being used so we went private.

I'll honestly tell you why we choose private education:

I looked at the state system and didnt like what I saw. Kids in our local class crammed in. The Head saying tht she didnt like children to be shown up so during sports day you didnt just clap for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd. You clapped for the spectators too. I made a run for it. If she is teaching that at 7 then the kids are going to get a big shock when they go for their first job (and dont get it!)

Because we could afford it.

At any time we could have dropped out, you dont book your place to 18. We have found both schools have developed and looked after our sons. Do I think it would have been the same in the state system around here with big classes, no competition and shorter school days. No I dont.

If you read the article from the Economist I linked to most of the previous Labour government minsters (and shockingly Education Ministers!) sent their kids to private schools. Presumably they knew something others didnt!

jonicomelately · 04/10/2013 14:18

TOSN. I'd be very happy to dm you with the details of the school I'm talking about. I'm certainly not lying to further my argument about private school. Sadly. it is the reality in certain cities. I attended a state comp and I really don't relate to the description of them being some sort of educational utopia.

Kenlee · 04/10/2013 14:19

To be honest I would chose private over state. I don't make a distinction over rich or poor. Although I do prefer my daughter to learn how to deal with the wolves. Chavs well hopefully she won't need to deal with them.

I did send my daughter to a local private school so that she can pickup a nice Surrey accent. Will give her an advantage later in life. I think hockey sticks are important they need to be flash...O its not always about Oxford or Cambridge ...I'm quite happy with UCL or any other RG University but then its up to her where and what she wants at 18..

Norudeshitrequired · 04/10/2013 14:20

They'll say the school down the road just isn't good enough and it's all knifey, and if only they lived near a leafy excellent comp they'd use that

Quite a lot of the kids at my sons indie have spent some time in state school before transferring over for various reasons (including class sizes of 40 once they move to year 3). I don't think the majority of people choose an indie school for the flashy hockey socks or to avoid the 'chavs' at the state schools. Lots of kids also move from indie to state for various reasons including a drop in household income or a place becoming available at the local catchment school.
The state primary school close to me is actually quite nice, gets above average results and has a satisfactory ofsted report. It just wasn't a school that suited my son. We moved him to the local private school for reasons other than simply trying to get better academic standards and the reason wasn't to avoid the chavs either as the local state school is quite middle class anyway and they don't play hockey (shame as I loved hockey when I was at my state school).

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 04/10/2013 14:25

I fear my response to Handcream was mis-read (Joni, I missed the post where you described any state school, and wasn't accusing you of lying about anything).

Handcream seemed to be suggesting that because some labour politicians were shabby in their rhetoric and their actions, quite a lot of people lie about how they feel about private schools.

I was suggesting that could cut both ways, and the reasons for children to go to private school might not always be as noble or indeed as life-and-death as some parents paint them.

Thus the hockey socks etc were an exaggerated version of what sometimes appeals, rather than a quotation from or reference to any posts on this sthread.

(oh btw, who has the private school bingo sheet? Can you fill in 'chip on your shoulder' if it's on mine, please? ta! )

motherinferior · 04/10/2013 14:31

*Eton traditonally takes boys from the state system who are exceptionally bright and puts them in a prep school for a few years and then onto Eton (obviously with their permission!). in my DS year a boy did just that. His state school didnt know what to do with him. His parents didnt have English as a first language and didnt know our system.

Honestly, if that was your DS and he was flagged as being of that cailbre. Would you turn down the free place and put him in the local school because of your principles. Answer honestly please!*

I'd keep him at home. Why on earth should I turn him into Eton's cash cow? Plenty of state schools do 'know what to do' with bright kids.

missinglalaland · 04/10/2013 14:33

One hinderance to Public Schools "helping" state schools is that many state schools do not want "help."

They have their own idealogical position and don't want to be condescended to by "their betters."

wordfactory · 04/10/2013 14:39

MI I thik the problemo with uber bright kids, is not sector, but ensuring that any school they attend has a reasonable cohort of like-ability pupils.

Only super selective schools really provide that.

Otherwise the poor outlier can have a bloody lonely and frustrating existence.

handcream · 04/10/2013 14:44

Mother - well his previous school didnt know what to do with him! You can state some schools know what to do but this wasnt one of them. He was being severely bullied and the school did little. He was in a class of 35 and was seen as a odd ball. The most popular boys were the ones who answered the teachers back, who mucked around in class showing off to the girls.

Didnt Tom Daley have to move to a private school because of bullying. Why cant we embrace success and achievement as opposed to laughing at it.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 04/10/2013 14:45

Even with such an outlier, I think I'd rather they were at home with me than at Eton, which could be lonely in all sorts of different ways!

But all the children on bursaries at private schools aren't 'outliers' of the kind who would necessarily, inevitably, have a shit time in a normal school, are they?

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